LIVE 5 great product going BAD!

raapie · Post by **raapie** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 4:23 pm

... oh when I bought my first Stat, man you could swear I sounded like Hendrix

Robert Henke · Post by **Robert Henke** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 4:36 pm

yeah, looking forward to hear this. When I was younger i also did believe that a new instrument will do the job. Now I spend hours trying to get my damn fingers moving right on my _old_ instruments...

One word for those who tend to think in black and white here:
I am euphoric about Live from time to time since it completly changed my way of working. In a very positive sense. But I am also frustrated by the flaws and bugs as everyone else who relies to it as his/her primary tool. No one at Ableton believes that Live is perfect. We all know there is still a long road to go. And we sometimes need to make radical decissions in order to get one step further. Some of these decissions will turn out to be right and some of them will need to be revised and be replaced by something better in the future. I personally do not like the new clip nudge feature, not because it is complety wrong, but because it does not feel right to me in its current implementation. Obviously I am not alone and it is likely that we will see changes here in the future. On the other side, the new browser is something wich is essentially necessery for managing larger numbers of presets, files etc... The fact that it is harder now to switch between device presets is not the fault of the new browser concept but shows that there is a need for a way to organise presets one wants to change via MIDI etc... in a live situation. So, here nothing is wrong, just some things are still missing and once they will be in everything is fine.

Long words, short meaning: we work on it. On all of these aspects.

Robert Henke
Ableton

telekom · Post by **telekom** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 5:09 pm

FUCK I was ranting on for so long about this that I was logged out and lost my post... aaarrrggghh...

Basically Trat is going on about Live making everybody sound the same. Short answer to that - bollocks. If Akufen, Sasha, Hans Zimmer and Mogwai all sound like Live groupies then I'm missing something.

Robert is open enough to criticise elements of his own software, but as he says it's in progress. No-one expected Live 1 to be the definitive program, stop right there thanks. God help the poor souls - they've just finished beta testing an amazing program that the vast majority of users love. And then they get told they're making software that just makes everyone sound alike... Jesus.

If the same could be said of Les Paul I think we would have heard a lot less from the electric guitar over the last 50 years.

If you're flying the plane, then you crash it. It's not live's fault that your originality gland stopped working. if Live is too restrictive, then other tools are available.

No offence BTW...

(Robert - can we get a little longer when we're logged in so that we don't get logged out by accident ?

:):) )

supster · Post by **supster** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 5:43 pm

Robert Henke wrote:. If "music sounds like done in Live" it does so, because a lot of people go the easy way and just throw a bunch of loops together and think this makes a song.

of course ... to develop a unique sound takes a lot of hard work and persistance about a lot of details.. takes some people a while for this to sink in i guess

once it does plenty of people probably give up, or it becomes an occasional hobby .. so they keep churning out tracks of ready made loops with some ping pong delay on them ..

anyway what was this thread about?

oh yeah: this product keeps getting better and better, if theres something thats not to your liking, be patient and state your case in the wishlist forum.

worked for us
.

quandry · Post by **quandry** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 5:54 pm

Robert Henke wrote:yeah, looking forward to hear this. When I was younger i also did believe that a new instrument will do the job. Now I spend hours trying to get my damn fingers moving right on my _old_ instruments...

One word for those who tend to think in black and white here:
I am euphoric about Live from time to time since it completly changed my way of working. In a very positive sense. But I am also frustrated by the flaws and bugs as everyone else who relies to it as his/her primary tool. No one at Ableton believes that Live is perfect. We all know there is still a long road to go. And we sometimes need to make radical decissions in order to get one step further. Some of these decissions will turn out to be right and some of them will need to be revised and be replaced by something better in the future. I personally do not like the new clip nudge feature, not because it is complety wrong, but because it does not feel right to me in its current implementation. Obviously I am not alone and it is likely that we will see changes here in the future. On the other side, the new browser is something wich is essentially necessery for managing larger numbers of presets, files etc... The fact that it is harder now to switch between device presets is not the fault of the new browser concept but shows that there is a need for a way to organise presets one wants to change via MIDI etc... in a live situation. So, here nothing is wrong, just some things are still missing and once they will be in everything is fine.

Long words, short meaning: we work on it. On all of these aspects.

Robert Henke
Ableton

Wow, Thanks! I think a lot of us share your euphoria with this awesome application/instrument called Live, and though we sometimes forget to say it outright when critiquing new features, for me it goes without saying that the design and concept of Live really is groundbreaking, and has allow a lot of us to create music and perform in ways only possible with Live. Thanks for your dedication to the program, to listening to all of your rabid users, for taking the time to honestly respond...this interaction is part of what makes Ableton so unique--keep up the great work and hopefully get a lil' R'n'R in your busy schedule.

Ryan

cane creek · Post by **cane creek** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 6:23 pm

Eastbubblefunk at least somebody knows what their talking about..

Hell we'll be up to live 10 before we know it and Ablton still won't have one solid version under their belt.

Ableton should take a leaf out of propellerheads book , Propellerhead released reason 3 and it had bugs so Propellerhead couldn't appologise enough to its customers , they released version 3.0.3 and i bet its the last update you see because when it comes to programs Propellerhead are real professionals they want to sell you a product that works , im starting to think Ableton are just having my eyes out and sucking money out of me for a product full of bugs....

My UAD-1 was the last straw , UAD-1 plugins crackling ? they've never crackled in any version of cubase ive owned.

and as for my powercore firewire , i ain't even going to waste my time trying to get that to work in live 5 , i'll stick to cubase sx3 for that.

Ableton live is my little novalty play around toy i use to show off to friends , but behind closed doors i produce with cubase because i need something reliable.

raapie · Post by **raapie** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 6:32 pm

a tool is just a tool. I heard a violin player talk about preferring something else over an old Stradivarius. but most people asked her: 'why are you not playing a Stradivarius?'.

if you can't make something great with Live, you suck as a composer/arranger, but don't blame the tool.

hambone1 · Post by **hambone1** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 6:42 pm

I've thrown as much as I can at 5, and can't get crackles/pops until I reduce the latency to a ridiculous amount, especially on the desktop computer.

It is rock solid. I never would have had the ability or confidence to quit my day job and pursue music as a career without this program. I know it's not perfect, but I'm confident that as long as people can make literate, articulate, constructive, knowledgeable criticism and not throw juvenile tantrums, the Abes will continue to refine it to perfection.

I for one am thankful!

cane creek · Post by **cane creek** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 6:46 pm

hambone1 , read eastbubblefunks original post , he has some very valid points theres no tantrums here.

some links to your music would be nice since you gave up your job to pursue music as a career , i have a small album deal due for release in the new year , it would be nice to give up my day job but i know that isn't going to happen.

hambone1 · Post by **hambone1** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 6:50 pm

I've tried to read it.

Maybe some speed would help.

D K · Post by **D K** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 6:59 pm

cane creek wrote:
Hell we'll be up to live 10 before we know it and Ablton still won't have one solid version under their belt.

Ableton should take a leaf out of propellerheads book , Propellerhead released reason 3 and it had bugs so Propellerhead couldn't appologise enough to its customers , they released version 3.0.3 and i bet its the last update you see because when it comes to programs Propellerhead are real professionals they want to sell you a product that works , im starting to think Ableton are just having my eyes out and sucking money out of me for a product full of bugs....

My UAD-1 was the last straw , UAD-1 plugins crackling ? they've never crackled in any version of cubase ive owned.

and as for my powercore firewire , i ain't even going to waste my time trying to get that to work in live 5 , i'll stick to cubase sx3 for that.

Ableton live is my little novalty play around toy i use to show off to friends , but behind closed doors i produce with cubase because i need something reliable.

hmmm....i personally dropped reason for live, just as buggy for me....
the cool thing i like about live is that you can use 3rd party plugs and vsti's...
one of the reasons ableton has a more difficult time in development is undoubtedly due to this...
don't forget, reason is limited to it's proprietary elements. weak.
can't comment on the uad-1 prob,
but powercore? tc support is shite, and that's one of the buggiest units to get to work that i've ever dealt with, don't see any valid point there...
i play live alot. had crashes on both reason and live.
don't see your point about reliability at all there either.
don't worry about your closet or wherever you work, nobody really cares.
use whatever works best for you.
thanks for the uad-1 thought, though, will look into that...
d

quandry · Post by **quandry** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 7:04 pm

cane creek wrote:Hell we'll be up to live 10 before we know it and Ablton still won't have one solid version under their belt.

Dude, what are you talking about? I have been using Live since the release of version 2. Live 2.0.3 and 3.0.2 have NEVER crashed on me under countless hundreds of hours of varied usage--from recording 16 tracks at once and mixing/producing studio albums of bands, to performing doing all-live looping with a duo. I am definitely not alone in this, MANY, MANY live users have eperiences as trouble/worry free as myself. Either you haven't used any of these previous version of Live, or your system is wack, plain and simple. Your statement above is ludicris--if a program that has NEVER crashed for 2+ years under lots of heavy use isn't solid, then nothing is. Sorry if you have computer issues, but please don't make global statements as if they were true, when they are really either b.s. or a result of a ghetto computer setup. Sure 5 isn't as crash free as these older versions--its new, and has tons of new features that are being ironed out. If you don't want to be a part of that process, feel free to wait until the consensus declares it solid in a few months. The rest of us are chomping at the bit to play with 5, and are happy to help beta test and iron out any flaws. Ironically, you're propellorhead example is pretty much what will happen with 5 (and happened with Live 3 and 4), in the next few months, they will sort it out and have a version of 5 as rock solid as 2.0.3 and 3.0.2. Sounds like your only gripe you elucidate upon is the UAD and powercore issues--have you searched the forums for these issues, or contacted Ableton? Do people out there use these with Live sucessfully? I can sympathize if Live won't work properly with these pieces of gear for you (but I seem to recall them working for others), but beyond those idiosyncratic setup issues you have, what else makes live so unstable for you? I bet nothing else.

Ryan

cane creek · Post by **cane creek** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 7:07 pm

D K wrote:don't see your point about reliability at all there d

i use UAD-1 and powercore in all my projects , they just don't work properly in live 5 , The UAD-1 plugins crackle and powercore/virus has a 25% CPU hit just playing a single instance when its supposed to have a zero CPU hit , but these products work fine in cubase.

so i produce in cubase because its more reliable.

so do you see my point in reliability now ?

quandry · Post by **quandry** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 7:07 pm

cane creek wrote:i use UAD-1 and powercore in all my projects , they just don't work properly in live 5 , The UAD-1 plugins crackle and powercore/virus has a 25% CPU hit just playing a single instance when its supposed to have a zero CPU hit , but these products work fine in cubase.

so i produce in cubase because its more reliable.

so do you see my point in reliability now ?

Okay, then why did you slag all previous version of Live and say it won't be til version 10 til we get a "solid" version--give me a break. Why don't you post you're issues with powercore and UAD in the bugs and problems forum where they belong, rather than using this thread as a wholesale opportunity to slag all versions of Live, with absolutely no basis other that less-than-perfect third-party hardware. Have fun with Cubase, sounds like the two of you were made for each other. Just don't slag Live when you're real issues are hardware/setup related, and don't really have much to do with the application Live, or 99% of the users here.

Ryan

cane creek · Post by **cane creek** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 7:14 pm

Powercores and UAD-1's are very popular products , you would think ableton would own these products and carry out tests before releasing a product.

He'll im the customer , i pay their wages , yet im supposed to test and then sit around for weeks waiting for solutions.

when am i supposed to get some music made.