Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
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androids
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Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2006 6:12 am

Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by androids » Fri Mar 08, 2013 7:39 am

I have an external HD with 2.5 To of samples in a single unique folder called "samples", which contains around 2500 sub-folders (named "CM128", "Zero-G loopzilla", "Field recordings" etc...) and each contains sub-sub-folders like "loops", "bass", "atmo" ....

What is the point to index all those samples (around 2'500'000) ???

First the process is soooo long, took me 3 days to complete.
I had to do it on all machines I use Live.
And it's ... useless to me !!!

Why isnt there an option to disable indexing and use the old realtime-folder-list-retrieving method ??

This really sucks !!

infernal.machine
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Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by infernal.machine » Fri Mar 08, 2013 7:43 am

androids wrote: What is the point to index all those samples (around 2'500'000) ???
What is the point to HAVE all those samples? :roll:

K1D1M35N
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Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by K1D1M35N » Fri Mar 08, 2013 7:58 am

infernal.machine wrote:
androids wrote: What is the point to index all those samples (around 2'500'000) ???
What is the point to HAVE all those samples? :roll:
What's the point in asking such a stupid question?

There's a program called "Everything" (Win) which finds every file on your HD in seconds (by name) wihtout indexing, if Live had something like that implemented there wouldn't be days of indexing.

androids
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Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by androids » Fri Mar 08, 2013 8:13 am

I think you should be able to tell Live if you want indexing or not on every folder you drop in "Places", or have a "index on/off" in the options with "off" giving you the same folder handling functions as in v8 ...

Indexing is interesting for 'patches', but I dont consider samples as patches ...

infernal.machine
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Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by infernal.machine » Fri Mar 08, 2013 8:27 am

K1D1M35N wrote: What's the point in asking such a stupid question?

There's a program called "Everything" (Win) which finds every file on your HD in seconds (by name) wihtout indexing, if Live had something like that implemented there wouldn't be days of indexing.
Lol 'Everything' uses indexing...

androids
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Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by androids » Fri Mar 08, 2013 8:41 am

infernal.machine wrote:
K1D1M35N wrote: What's the point in asking such a stupid question?

There's a program called "Everything" (Win) which finds every file on your HD in seconds (by name) wihtout indexing, if Live had something like that implemented there wouldn't be days of indexing.
Lol 'Everything' uses indexing...
But with everything : "1,000,000 files will take about 1 minute." , not 1 day ... :evil:

androids
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Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by androids » Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:23 am

Not to mention that the database is more than 1go, and still building ...

it's located at :

c:\users\your_name\appdata\roaming\ableton\live 9.0.1\database\files.db


once finished, i'll try to simply copy the file to the other machines, wishing it will prevent from running the whole process again ...

UnCL0NED
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Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by UnCL0NED » Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:28 am

Does "Everything" also instantly play/preview your sample in sync with Live, when you click the sample? 8O
soundcloud
"everything you read on the internet is true!"

androids
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Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by androids » Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:07 am

UnCL0NED wrote:Does "Everything" also instantly play/preview your sample in sync with Live, when you click the sample? 8O

Live 8 browser did ... and instantly :wink:

Lumix
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Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by Lumix » Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:03 pm

androids wrote:What is the point to index all those samples (around 2'500'000) ???
:roll:
someone found a way to hide that file extensions? like adg/adv - i do not care about them in the browser.
The Davile Insaide Teh Mashihne.

Ableton Denver
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Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by Ableton Denver » Sat Mar 09, 2013 8:40 pm

I am here to deliver potential insight and begin the petition for the removal or modification of the new Ableton browser. Vote here :

http://strawpoll.me/8725/

I use an external drive for production. About 100gb of samples and Live 9 is unusable and destroying the drive. I have a post in the beta thread here :

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=190566

This is a known bug that they ?redacted? -- I found reference to the issue in Google's cache (documented in other forum post). Unclear on this still...

Here's the deal - this pattern is a mistake, I think the term "anti-pattern" is appropriate. (congratz on the jr dev mistake)

As I see this, the developers biffed and never thought someone would use an external drive with tons of samples (apparently they have never been in a professional studio). As the pattern stands, I will continuously battle this indexing when I actually know EXACTLY where the samples are and need not the hand-holding Ableton is offing.

So after 30 minutes of distressful spinning, churning, and an abnormal temperature increase of my perfectly operational drive I had to force quit and turn off Ableton Live9. The browser never worked in my 5 hours of trying to get samples to show.

The anti-pattern is a collection of mistakes made in development requiring a complete index before browsing (OMFG FAIL). This should, by all reasonable, logical, and standard practices allow extension of the native browser object from the operating system. I am speaking as a professional programmer (that means I make all my $ from programming) in stating that there are tools in the native operating system that Ableton development tried to make better. The result is the risk of hard-drive destruction (not an exaggeration).

re : "What is the point to index all those samples (around 2'500'000) ???" -- it is called a sample collection, my production library. I have been in this game for 2 decades, I have a large sample collection, now unusable in Live 9. I use external drives because I have friends and we collaborate. I can pull material from my library on another persons computer. Crazy right?

If I am wrong I can accept this reality, but the posts and threads are starting to pour in. Ableton needs to address this ASAP before a mob of producers are outside the office with torches.
closed the user group on purpose.

Stevejaz
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Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by Stevejaz » Sat Mar 09, 2013 9:17 pm

Thanks Androids for raising this issue, and Ableton Denver for your very informative reply. I am probably not the only person holding off from the upgrade/Push purchase due to the delays in Push being available. One of the big attractions to 9 was the claimed multiple hard drive support. Nice to know in advance if there are issues.

Guillermo Barrancos
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Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by Guillermo Barrancos » Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:52 pm

Reality is, they're not going to revert the Library to the old one.

The New Library is optimized for their New hardware: Push.

A possible solution however would be the ability to create an extra "sample Library" with a indexing on/off toggle.

I cannot believe that it should be that hard to patch in relatively quickly to address this issue.

ezelkow1
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Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by ezelkow1 » Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:38 pm

Im not so sure they are even going to add an option. This was brought up fairly early on in the beta process and was never addressed by ableton at all even after having many examples of why people would need non-indexed locations

Their official answer was 'just add the root of your hdd to places and let it scan it'. So I dont think they ever fully grasped why people would want non-indexed locations or just didnt want to hear it

ian_halsall
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Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by ian_halsall » Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:49 pm

I regularly use over a million samples in my songs.

They are all rubbish however.

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