Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
dazzer
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Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by dazzer » Sun Mar 10, 2013 10:23 am

OK, a quick play around and can confirm that adding a new folder of samples to my Samples folder when Live is closed _does_ show up later in Live's browser and _does_ take some time (45 secs for a folder of 2 samples)

And following Angstrom's example of saving a preset, along with User Library/Presets it also saves it outside a folder, which happens to be after/under the Winds folder under Operator in Categories which is totally wrong as it does seem impossible (to me anyway) into the correct folder, in my case 'Bass"

snakedogman
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Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by snakedogman » Sun Mar 10, 2013 10:46 am

For me it also recognises files added while live is closed. It also doesn't seem to take any time at all, certainly not 45 seconds for two samples... I added 10 samples in a folder just to test and it showed up pretty much instantaniously.

snakedogman
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Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by snakedogman » Sun Mar 10, 2013 10:55 am

JeffreyCJohnson wrote: Also, there's a typo in the Live 9 documentation:

> 5.1.2 User Folders
> . . .
> In order to work with your own folders in Live,
> you must first add them to the browser, either by
> dropping them directly into Live from the Explorer
> . . .
> After adding a user folder, Live will scan it,
> which “teaches” the browser about its contents
> . . .
> Note: adding a user folder does not actually move the folder to a new location

It doesn't move the files, it COPIES the files, and if you don't know that's happening you will loose valuable edits.

Following directions, I dropped the top-level directory of my largest user folder onto the browser from Explorer. The fact that it was my Live 8 library is irrelevant. :) Live 9 took two hours making a duplicate copy of all the files and folders... it took so long I expected stellar indexing results. (On the same drive it only takes Explorer 12 minutes to copy the same branch.) When Live was finished the user folder hierarchy was still mostly blank, and when the files did show up it was usually in very long lists; 1000's of files in one scroll box with *more* at the end.
I'm not sure what happened there but I've added a bunch of user folders to the places section in the browser and at no point did it move or copy anything. If I drop my "drums" sample folder of about 9 GB from explorer onto the browser it just appears as it should. Live "thinks" for about two seconds and then it's done.
Can you replicate the behaviour you describe?
Last edited by snakedogman on Sun Mar 10, 2013 10:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

snakedogman
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Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by snakedogman » Sun Mar 10, 2013 10:56 am

btw some people may have missed it but there are a bunch of FAQ's on Ableton's website about the handling the browser/library:
https://www.ableton.com/en/articles/library-faqs/

dazzer
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Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by dazzer » Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:31 am

*Update to what I wrote before re. Angstrom's experience*

In my User Library I added a folder called Bass under Operator presets and moved my newly created Operator bass preset inside

When I went back to Categories/Instruments/Operator the preset had automatically moved from under the Winds folder (i.e. in no sub-folder at all) to inside the factory content Bass folder. Which is good enough for me to at least make the new library usable for both saving presets and adding folders as destinations under Places (which doesn't copy anything at all, it just points Live's browser to a folder I've told it to look at)
Last edited by dazzer on Sun Mar 10, 2013 1:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Nokatus
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Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by Nokatus » Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:57 pm

This sounds absolutely terrible. Thanks for highlighting the issue: I'm both glad I didn't go 9, and also know for certain I won't be doing it.

Just making sure here: one can't browse the contents of hard drives with the Live 9 browser at all without first "adding" the drives/folders and having them actively scanned?

I'm one of those guys here who do sound design for a living, alongside music. Vast piles of samples, recorded and edited over the years, and already stored in the kind of directory structure I wish to use. This would only get in the way, big time. I repeat, as far as my audio hard drives are concerned, these shenanigans wouldn't offer any benefits, only glaring negatives. So there.

Angstrom
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Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by Angstrom » Sun Mar 10, 2013 1:38 pm

Hey guys, you are probably right about the preset being outside winds, rather than in it. The weird thing is, I was sure that when I first saved this preset it was INSIDE the folder "winds" , so I deleted it out of there and recorded his gif of me resaving.
Bah, I'll edit that post so it doesn't cause further confusion. Apologies!

arthur101
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Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by arthur101 » Sun Mar 10, 2013 1:47 pm

" Live 9 Suite will require 50 GB of hard drive space. Does this apply if I already have Suite 8 installed?

Live Versions: 9
Operating System: ALL

Yes, even if you have Suite 8 installed fully on your hard drive, the installation of Live 9 Suite requires another 50 GB of hard disk space, since it will install a completely new library and leave your Suite 8 library untouched. "

i can see my Library from 8 on my windows folders but i cant find the Live 9 library

do they mean the "Factory Packs" folder? but its only 19GB

redglass
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Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by redglass » Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:47 pm

arthur101 wrote:" Live 9 Suite will require 50 GB of hard drive space. Does this apply if I already have Suite 8 installed?

Live Versions: 9
Operating System: ALL

Yes, even if you have Suite 8 installed fully on your hard drive, the installation of Live 9 Suite requires another 50 GB of hard disk space, since it will install a completely new library and leave your Suite 8 library untouched. "

i can see my Library from 8 on my windows folders but i cant find the Live 9 library
Win7: c/programdata/ableton
do they mean the "Factory Packs" folder? but its only 19GB
Yes

ezelkow1
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Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by ezelkow1 » Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:39 pm

Its interesting it seems to take sometime for changes to show up for some when live is closed and re-opened, others its instant, and in my case I just tried renaming a file with live closed, then re-opening it and so far after 5 minutes it still hasnt picked up the change

I wonder if it has to do with the size of the library your working with, if you have a substantial library it takes longer to go and pick up any changes after a re-open

-edit
10minutes and still no change
-
15min, no change, at this point Ill stop testing since really there is no point in waiting 15minutes for a change in anything to show up, if it takes that long its obviously broken


Amaury, this is win7x64, live 9 x64. My library size is ~277gb with ~550k files and 18k folders, if you need any other info let me know

androids
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Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by androids » Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:20 am

Seems that I'm not the only guy with a *large* sample lib right ?

Using a faster computer this weekend, the scanning took me 14 hours to complete, only for my "sample" folder.
I also noticed that loading Live takes about 3 minutes (to load the 1.5 gigs of index file), then another 2 minutes when Live is open until I can use it, and around 2 minutes of disk activity when I quit (does it completely re-write the index file ??)

That's pretty unusable compared to Live 8.

No way I will switch to 9 until there is a "index on/off" somewhere in the prefs.
I want the old fashioned instant "explorer-like" browser.
I want a "Places (indexed)" and "Places (non-indexed)" groups in the browser.

I want Ableton to explain me what is the point to index millions of samples if the only benefit is a search function which returns 3000+ results when is enter "kick" ???

Even if my library is huge, if I want a special type of kick, I know where to look at, and I dont need Live to perform this task for me.

[Library size : 2.4 To, 2'267'497 Files, 113'978 Folders]
Last edited by androids on Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

Amaury
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Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by Amaury » Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:46 am

ezelkow1 wrote:Its interesting it seems to take sometime for changes to show up for some when live is closed and re-opened, others its instant, and in my case I just tried renaming a file with live closed, then re-opening it and so far after 5 minutes it still hasnt picked up the change

I wonder if it has to do with the size of the library your working with, if you have a substantial library it takes longer to go and pick up any changes after a re-open

-edit
10minutes and still no change
-
15min, no change, at this point Ill stop testing since really there is no point in waiting 15minutes for a change in anything to show up, if it takes that long its obviously broken


Amaury, this is win7x64, live 9 x64. My library size is ~277gb with ~550k files and 18k folders, if you need any other info let me know
Thanks for the details. Indeed, the time depends on the amount of data you have. We are currently investigating why it takes that long to scan many files.
Ableton Product Team

androids
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Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by androids » Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:22 am

Nokatus wrote: Just making sure here: one can't browse the contents of hard drives with the Live 9 browser at all without first "adding" the drives/folders and having them actively scanned?
CANT BROWSE AT ALL, you're right !
Nokatus wrote: I'm one of those guys here who do sound design for a living, alongside music. Vast piles of samples, recorded and edited over the years, and already stored in the kind of directory structure I wish to use.
Same here, and not to mention that I'm not going to change my 20 years old method of 'manual indexing' as far as Live is not my only single audio tool, and all others are related to the same sample structure ...

For the ones who have samples over a few internal and/or external HDD, then good luck !

androids
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Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by androids » Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:25 am

funken wrote:
androids wrote:
I want Ableton to explain me what is the point to index millions of samples if the only benefit is a search function which returns 3000+ results when is enter "kick" ???

Even if my library is huge, if I want a special type of kick, I know where to look at, and I dont need Live to perform this task for me.
I think a lot of people would disagree with that. Of course many producers don't search for kicks very often, they just use the same ones, but what if you want a vocal or a sax? You might well want to search your whole library.

Agree, but do you think we all waited for the live 9 index function to find a way to logically and quickly retrieve samples ?

Honestly, I would rather go for a Google desktop external indexing solution to find my samples out of Live 9, then drag-drop, instead of this 9 browser.

Indexing should be FAST even on EXTREME LARGE libraries and should give coherent and up-to-date results, browser9 doesnt.
Last edited by androids on Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

mdk
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Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by mdk » Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:27 am

funken wrote:
androids wrote:
I want Ableton to explain me what is the point to index millions of samples if the only benefit is a search function which returns 3000+ results when is enter "kick" ???

Even if my library is huge, if I want a special type of kick, I know where to look at, and I dont need Live to perform this task for me.
I think a lot of people would disagree with that. Of course many producers don't search for kicks very often, they just use the same ones, but what if you want a vocal or a sax? You might well want to search your whole library.
A lot might disagree but I agree with him 100%. I know where my stuff is, I know how it's organised and I just want to access it directly. Adding a non-optional layer of indirection between me and my data is frustrating. I don't know why Ableton are so determined to avoid allowing options, even in the options.txt file. Its the same thing with 'smart snap', it might be the case that most people like it, but for some people its another barrier to their workflow.

The usual response to these kinds of concerns during beta was always 'how is it working for you, what circumstances does it do blah blah blah, how can we change it so it suits your needs'. It was fine already, just give me an option to turn these things off both always indexed folders and smart snap.

Gerhard Behles said 'Live is very much about accessibility and worry-free creative flow'.

When I cant access my data how I want that kills both accessibility and creative flow.
Pr0k Records - Bandcamp Facebook Twitter

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