Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine

[panten]

The point is that it's a limitation of Push not being able to browse, load, or automap plugins.

That's probably not as big of a deal for most people compared to not being able to do any sampling/chopping/duplicating pads/waveform editing...etc. with Drum Racks from Push.

Correct, especially as there is a way to work it with a modicum of prep, unlike sample choppin etc.

[humnumb]

Nothing a little firmware/software update can't fix.

Not quite. Some of the Push's limitations are hardware based. For example, you will never be able to get things like waveforms to show up on Push's display to do things like editing samples only by looking at and using just the hardware like you can with Maschine because Push only has a character display, not a graphical display.

[skatr2]

One personal thought from someone who owned maschine and currently still owns live. If you are looking to use maschine in and of itself, then its not a bad one to go for. If you are looking to control live while still using maschine, I would recommend against it. Now I know and understand that many people have successfully controlled live with maschine, I had the worst trouble with it and when you think you get it working, it would just randomly drop the signal and stop working all together.

Biggest thing I say is really pay attention to your workflow. Each of these units have very unique ways of making music and sounds. Maschine just never came naturally to me like live has over the years....so I sold it about 7 months later.

[delicioso]

Now I know and understand that many people have successfully controlled live with maschine, I had the worst trouble with it and when you think you get it working, it would just randomly drop the signal and stop working all together.
.

That's already a thing of the past though. That bug you're referring to about Maschine's MIDI mode was fixed with the 1.8 update, and it was only happening for some OS X users.

[panten]

Nothing a little firmware/software update can't fix.

Not quite. Some of the Push's limitations are hardware based. For example, you will never be able to get things like waveforms to show up on Push's display to do things like editing samples only by looking at and using just the hardware like you can with Maschine because Push only has a character display, not a graphical display.

Unfortunately you misquoted Guillermo here. His comment was in relation to working with VSTs but well done for getting in the point about character only display from Jesse's Q&A thread.

[Guillermo Barrancos]

Nothing a little firmware/software update can't fix.

Not quite. Some of the Push's limitations are hardware based. For example, you will never be able to get things like waveforms to show up on Push's display to do things like editing samples only by looking at and using just the hardware like you can with Maschine because Push only has a character display, not a graphical display.

But why would you want to edit waveforms on a tiny display, when you can do it on Your computerscreen?

I mean... it would have been a great feature for Maschine if it actually had a audio Interface onboard and use the Maschine completely standalone without computer.
But as you need to hook up Maschine to a computer, load the software on your Laptop, to be able to work With the Device, then it's just a gimmick in my eyes and not really a huge advantage over Push.

I am really on the fence right now (after watching some great videos of Maschine MkII), like this guy and he is just using Mikro mkII: http://www.youtube.com/user/andrewchell ... e=g-subs-u
And I am really curious what NI can pull out of it's sleeve With the 2.0 update. Will be interesting.

I probably still go for Push, if I can get my hands on it end this month. Maschine, for some reason, is also too high priced here in Norway compared to Push.
Both Push and Maschine MkII Retail 599 dollar currently, yet in Norway I have to pay 160 dollars more for Maschine.

[panten]

I am really on the fence right now (after watching some great videos of Maschine MkII), like this guy and he is just using Mikro mkII: http://www.youtube.com/user/andrewchell ... e=g-subs-u

Nice atmospheric vid and track btw.
Just watching that vid it occurred to me that he's not doing anything with the Mikro there that can't be done with the Push. No realtime sampling, chopping & reshuffling going on. In fact you could probably get rid of both the Maschine & Axiom and do it all from the Push.
Push is definitely performance based despite what they claim in the Q&A thread.

[Guillermo Barrancos]

I am really on the fence right now (after watching some great videos of Maschine MkII), like this guy and he is just using Mikro mkII: http://www.youtube.com/user/andrewchell ... e=g-subs-u

Nice atmospheric vid and track btw.
Just watching that vid it occurred to me that he's not doing anything with the Mikro there that can't be done with the Push. No realtime sampling, chopping & reshuffling going on. In fact you could probably get rid of both the Maschine & Axiom and do it all from the Push.
Push is definitely performance based despite what they claim in the Q&A thread.

You should watch some other vids from him. Pretty Nice.

I think as long as you still prefer a physical keyboard/piano over grid on Push, then Maschine is not a bad alternative to Push really.

[brettonwoodsapocalypse]

Push is an entirely different proposition to Maschine ( which I own ). Maschine is excellent a building beats and browsing Komplete sounds but Push has been really designed from the ground-up as a polyphonic instrument and is really optimized for Live. Maschine can't compete on that level.

[Citizen]

You know the one awesome thing that I was going to miss from Push by sticking with Maschine? (and this thread has been a huge part of me making that decision)

The fancy chromatic playing modes - and the ability to transpose a phrase by using exactly the same fingering!

Well.....no more....

http://www.native-instruments.com/forum ... p?t=163177



(granted, you can only work within an octave from the pads - but still - this is yet another element of Push's functionality that can be achieved with Maschine)

[Citizen]

Just saw the two posts above my last.... ha...pretty timely.

As far as only being able to work within one octave at a time, its not so bad - you just play the different octave in different passes - I just messed with this approach before, and it is awesome - just played a killer improvised blues scale over three octaves that sounded sooooooo good.

I can only play very basic phrases on a keyboard, so using the Maschine pads in conjunction with memorising the scale charts for the pads is a huge tool - and a great new way to compose!

[panten]

(granted, you can only work within an octave from the pads - but still - this is yet another element of Push's functionality that can be achieved with Maschine)

There's no doubt that this is something that will please a lot of existing Maschine users, but I've always felt constrained/boxed-in by playing chromatic/melodic tracks on the 4x4 pads. What happens on the overlap between octaves?

For me one of the big lures towards Push has been 64pads to play on. Not just for melodic stuff but assigning all of those buttons to 64 pads on the drumrack. This is going to be excellent for the type of music I like to create.
I've come to terms with the fact that I must do my sample chopping with the mouse now. That is, until I've created my own M4L patch or Ableton eventually do something themselves.

[TYLRbass]

I absolutely hated MIDI editing in Maschine.. I would use it for making quick and dirty beats and then export them to Ableton but I feel like I would have been able to finish simple tracks and beats in Maschine if it weren't for the MIDI editing..

[delicioso]

Nothing a little firmware/software update can't fix.

Not quite. Some of the Push's limitations are hardware based. For example, you will never be able to get things like waveforms to show up on Push's display to do things like editing samples only by looking at and using just the hardware like you can with Maschine because Push only has a character display, not a graphical display.

But why would you want to edit waveforms on a tiny display, when you can do it on Your computerscreen?

I mean... it would have been a great feature for Maschine if it actually had a audio Interface onboard and use the Maschine completely standalone without computer.
But as you need to hook up Maschine to a computer, load the software on your Laptop, to be able to work With the Device, then it's just a gimmick in my eyes and not really a huge advantage over Push.

Obviously there's no one tool that appeals to everyone and your question highlights that. I think Maschine appeals more to people who prefer a hands-on hardware-based workflow over using a mouse, and especially appreciated by those who have previously enjoyed the experience of using standalone hardware, because using Maschine can really feel like you're using a standalone hardware when you're actually using it. Everything can be done while only looking at Maschine's hardware (other than the obvious things like drag & drop, import/export, and typing in names). The experience is drastically different from clicking around a software interface with a mouse while staring at a glowing computer screen. You often hear Maschine users talk about how "lost in the flow" they are, not even noticing that their computer screen went to sleep. Maschine was the first and still the only hardware/software combo that allows complete control from the hardware.

[Guillermo Barrancos]

(granted, you can only work within an octave from the pads - but still - this is yet another element of Push's functionality that can be achieved with Maschine)

There's no doubt that this is something that will please a lot of existing Maschine users, but I've always felt constrained/boxed-in by playing chromatic/melodic tracks on the 4x4 pads. What happens on the overlap between octaves?

For me one of the big lures towards Push has been 64pads to play on. Not just for melodic stuff but assigning all of those buttons to 64 pads on the drumrack. This is going to be excellent for the type of music I like to create.

So far I have seen no indication it's currently possible to do a 64 pad drumrack. At least I haven't seen any videos on it yet.

I hope in the near future tho, that some clever People can hack around in the firmware and scripts of Push to allow us to completely customize the pad layout/usage.

Also not being able to load and Control Third party plugins With Push is a huge oversight by Ableton. I really hope they address this With one of the first updates.
A lot of People use Third party plugins... so this can be a real dealbreaker for many.