Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine

[lo.key]

well out of the box you can do a 64 pad sampler, or indeed just nest a drum rack inside of an instrument rack, hey presto! You get a full keyboard layout to play 64 samples on. Other than that, you can load 3rd party plugins, who said you couldnt?

And you dont need to hack the firmware to change the layout, m4l and the control_surface calls to the LOM will let you easily remap components of the device.

[humnumb]

well out of the box you can do a 64 pad sampler, or indeed just nest a drum rack inside of an instrument rack, hey presto! You get a full keyboard layout to play 64 samples on.

Push is limited to 16 pads (4x4) at once for Drum Racks. Nesting a drum rack inside of an instrument rack is a rather cumbersome workaround, if that even works, that most people aren't going to find acceptable just to be able to trigger 64 drum rack pads at once.

Other than that, you can load 3rd party plugins, who said you couldnt?

You can't browse or load 3rd party plugins on Push. There's no automapping either. You can configure plugins beforehand but that's useless since nothing gets saved and you'd have to do it over every single time you load the same plugin. You will still need to save it as a rack beforehand for any of that and to still have recall.

And you dont need to hack the firmware to change the layout, m4l and the control_surface calls to the LOM will let you easily remap components of the device.

Requiring Max4Live or doing things like "control_surface calls to the LOM" is the furthest thing from being able to "easily remap components of the device" and only points out the deficiencies of Push as a MIDI controller outside of controlling Live and the fact that it doesn't even have an editor and that the notes cannot be changed. In contrast, Maschine comes with an excellent Controller Editor where you can easily remap everything and make as many MIDI controller templates as you'd like.

[Guillermo Barrancos]

well out of the box you can do a 64 pad sampler, or indeed just nest a drum rack inside of an instrument rack, hey presto! You get a full keyboard layout to play 64 samples on.

Push is limited to 16 pads (4x4) at once for Drum Racks. Nesting a drum rack inside of an instrument rack is a rather cumbersome workaround, if that even works, that most people aren't going to find acceptable just to be able to trigger 64 drum rack pads at once.

Other than that, you can load 3rd party plugins, who said you couldnt?

You can't browse or load 3rd party plugins on Push. There's no automapping either. You can configure plugins beforehand but that's useless since nothing gets saved and you'd have to do it over every single time you load the same plugin. You will still need to save it as a rack beforehand for any of that and to still have recall.

And you dont need to hack the firmware to change the layout, m4l and the control_surface calls to the LOM will let you easily remap components of the device.

Requiring Max4Live or doing things like "control_surface calls to the LOM" is the furthest thing from being able to "easily remap components of the device" and only points out the deficiencies of Push as a MIDI controller outside of controlling Live and the fact that it doesn't even have an editor and that the notes cannot be changed. In contrast, Maschine comes with an excellent Controller Editor where you can easily remap everything and make as many MIDI controller templates as you'd like.

The question is. Can these limitations be fixed in the near future via a firmware + software update?
Or is it a strict hardware limitation and we will be forced to fork out cash again for Push mk2?

If it's the first....then I can be patient and enjoy push and look forward these updates!

If it's the latter..... Well that would suck greatly and then Maschine mk2 starts looking more and more interesting as serious alternative. Especially with the inevitable 2.0 update incoming.

[skatr2]

well out of the box you can do a 64 pad sampler, or indeed just nest a drum rack inside of an instrument rack, hey presto! You get a full keyboard layout to play 64 samples on.

Push is limited to 16 pads (4x4) at once for Drum Racks. Nesting a drum rack inside of an instrument rack is a rather cumbersome workaround, if that even works, that most people aren't going to find acceptable just to be able to trigger 64 drum rack pads at once.

How exactly is *rightclick* *group* cumbersome?

[JohnAppleseed]

Don't know if this was mentioned already but SOS has a pretty comprehensive review of Push, that could help making some distinction between the two.

[gnurf]

Both Push and Maschine MkII Retail 599 dollar currently, yet in Norway I have to pay 160 dollars more for Maschine.

Yeah, that's the final Push I need to decide :)

Push is made to work really well with Live, while Maschine works really well with its own hardware. They both do a lot of the same things, but Push has more Live-specific stuff. Since I use Live more than any other audio tool, it's a natural choice. And the price discrepancy just seals the deal.

But I probably won't get one straight away - I'm sort of wary of first generation hardware. I'll watch all you guinea-pigs and see how happy people are with them after a month's use :)

[3dot...]

Don't know if this was mentioned already but SOS has a pretty comprehensive review of Push, that could help making some distinction between the two.

link please

[3dot...]

I think MaschineII is a better buy..
mainly because you can mimic Push
it's also better established at this point in time..

[3dot...]

Don't know if this was mentioned already but SOS has a pretty comprehensive review of Push, that could help making some distinction between the two.

link please

nevermind...
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar13/a ... /live9.htm

[yur2die4]

I bet it'd be fun to browse an M4L device meant to change Push's behavior, FROM the Push screen.

[panten]

Push is limited to 16 pads (4x4) at once for Drum Racks.

Not true at all. Push has a User Mode which will allow you to trigger 64 rack pads., we've already gone over this in this thread I thought.

[brettonwoodsapocalypse]

(granted, you can only work within an octave from the pads - but still - this is yet another element of Push's functionality that can be achieved with Maschine)

There's no doubt that this is something that will please a lot of existing Maschine users, but I've always felt constrained/boxed-in by playing chromatic/melodic tracks on the 4x4 pads. What happens on the overlap between octaves?

For me one of the big lures towards Push has been 64pads to play on. Not just for melodic stuff but assigning all of those buttons to 64 pads on the drumrack. This is going to be excellent for the type of music I like to create.
I've come to terms with the fact that I must do my sample chopping with the mouse now. That is, until I've created my own M4L patch or Ableton eventually do something themselves.

Exactly. I have tried Maschine scales but keeping it to one octave is very limiting. The idea when you compse is to have access not only to much more note but as well to the "wrong" notes ( which are not in the scale ) as it could bring new ideas.
The other major difference between the 2 systems is Max For Live. I own an APC40, and when u see the number of great scripts developped for the APC it should be VERY interesting to see what will be developped with Push.

[panten]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlo-1lUi6gM
Creative use of Push if slightly chaotic and strange sample choice imo

drumrack, sampler, and audio/midiclips ?

Is it the 22nd March yet?

[Guillermo Barrancos]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlo-1lUi6gM
Creative use of Push if slightly chaotic and strange sample choice imo

drumrack, sampler, and audio/midiclips ?

Is it the 22nd March yet?

Usermode has no lights???

That can be a big turn off if thats the case.

[panten]

Usermode has no lights???

For now I guess. No one has figured it out. It's not even hit the shops yet.
I don't worry about stuff like this, it's just a matter of time. I think it's quite easy to be knee-jerk about Push at the moment. Just trying to absorb all the information about it right now, good and bad.

Julien Bayle seems to be all over it right now
http://julienbayle.net/ableton-push/ So I'm following his experiments.