Audio dropouts - my audio interface, full HD or what?

[Whirly]

I've decided to make the transition from Cubase to Live but one problem has started to bother me. A moderate sized Live set might start out playing back well at a buffer size of 128 or 256 samples, but after a while I get these massive audio dropouts. Increasing the buffer size to 512 or higher doesn't help at all - in fact, the set will usually play back better at low rather than high buffer size. Explain it if you can.....

I've used the test tool in Lives preferences with very strange result -> the higher buffer size the more artifacts and dropouts.

My audio interface is a Steinberg MR816X. I've uninstalled/installed different versions of the drives several times with no improvement Everything Live (including packs) is installed on my OS HD which has a capacity of 320 GB whereof 96 GB are still available. Could this cause the problem? I've run "Repair Disk Permissions".

The problem occurs in both Live 8 and Live 9, but Cubase is running without any interruption. So, dear Live users - do you have any suggestions what might cause these dropouts? Would like to have your suggestions.

[istlota]

Macbooks with only 4G ram are going to have trouble meeting Ableton's needs. Things go south once you start adding midi tracks containing instruments with heavy CPU needs. I have read a lot of tips suggesting various ways to improve the situation. But my perception is that you will just be pasting band-aids over a sore which is going to start bleeding again before too long until you buy a computer with more ram.

To be honest, I am surprised you were not having similar problems with Cubase. Are you, perhaps, using more CPU intensive midi instruments now that you have Ableton Suite?

[Whirly]

Macbooks with only 4G ram are going to have trouble meeting Ableton's needs. Things go south once you start adding midi tracks containing instruments with heavy CPU needs. I have read a lot of tips suggesting various ways to improve the situation. But my perception is that you will just be pasting band-aids over a sore which is going to start bleeding again before too long until you buy a computer with more ram.

To be honest, I am surprised you were not having similar problems with Cubase. Are you, perhaps, using more CPU intensive midi instruments now that you have Ableton Suite?

Thanks for chiming in. I consider this particular set I was running when I wrote the above post as light on cpu and ram: a drum rack with about four simpler, 2-3 synths and a audio tracks. I was working at a buffer size of 128 samples until I hit the roof and got a few glitches. I wasn't surprised when that happened considering the buffer size. Then, when increasing the buffer size to 256, 512, 1024 and 2048 it all got worse, even without adding any extra instruments or audio tracks. That's what surprised me. Not to mention that the behaviour of the test tool in preferences showed all signes of something not working properly.

This evening I've been working on a set that's a lot more demanding: 2xGranulator,3xPadshop(which is Steinbergs equivalent to Granulator), 2xFM8, 1xZebra2, 1xsimpler, 1xCollision and 5xaudio tracks. I wasn't surprised when I started to get glitches at a buffer size of 256 samples. What worries me is that increasing the buffer size to 2048 and freezing all tracks doesn't help at all.

Considering the number of cpu hungry granular synths in the latter project I'm sure I would have had glitches/dropouts in Cubase as well, but the first project would have played back very smooth.

In order to compare the two I've made a couple of test projects containing only 3rd party instruments (Stylus RMX and Massive) and where Live start to kneel Cubase is still running fine. That's why I anticepate that there's something wrong either with Live, or more likely with my setup, and I want to get to the bottom of that.

On the other hand, if you and others are telling me that what I have described is normal for Live then I will settle with that and just get more ram. By the way, in some cases the cpu meter is not above 15% and there's hardly any sample instruments etc using ram, still I can get massive glitches/dropouts. That's not normal, is it?

Sorry for such a long post.

[istlota]

I do not get glitches when CPU is below 30%.

[Whirly]

Thanks. Actually quite valuable information for me.

[triant]

I just noticed the exact same problem yesterday! this has never been an issue for me in the past, even when running on a weaker computer with much more demanding live sets.

this is happening on a very new laptop w 16GB RAM, an SSD, etc. similarly, I'm getting more artifacts at higher buffer sizes. also, when running the test tone in preferences (with the CPU usage simulator) the tone becomes heavily distorted when the simulated CPU goes above 23%. whereas I distinctly remember in the past being able to crank up the simulated CPU with no artifacts on a machine w less RAM.

I'm going to try installing the 64 bit version and see if that works any differently, but please speak up if you come across a solution!

[Whirly]

but please speak up if you come across a solution!

Yes, I will.

[triant]

So I've confirmed some things:
- This problem persists in both the 32-bit and 64-bit versions of Live on my computer
- This problem persists regardless of whether I'm using my soundcard (Komplete Audio 6) or my built-in headphone jack.

Hmm...

[Whirly]

So I've confirmed some things:
- This problem persists in both the 32-bit and 64-bit versions of Live on my computer
- This problem persists regardless of whether I'm using my soundcard (Komplete Audio 6) or my built-in headphone jack.

Hmm...

Same here.


These are the things I’ve done so far:

• Removed everything Live 8 from my hard drive (just in case…)
  Fresh install of Ableton 9 32 bit and Max for Live 6.1 32 bit
  Contacted Stenbergs support. They are saying that they have not heard of any conflict between Ableton Live and their driver for my audio interface (Steinberg MR816X).
  Reascan Plug-ins (no conflicting plug-in found)
  Fresh install of my sound card driver.
  Cleaned my system hard drive (now 135 GB available of total 320 GB)
  Run Repair Disk Permission
  Moved Live packs to dedicated sample hard drive (153 GB available of total 500 GB)
  Turned off WiFi and checked that there are no background tasks running on my computer (as far as I can see).

After doing all this I still get massive glitches and dropouts.
Here is an example of how the default startup song sounds with the buffer size set to 1024 samples: https://soundcloud.com/septemberaudio/e ... in-ableton
It was recorded with my Zoom H4n

[istlota]

To add to that list:

1) If your computer supports more RAM, there is no good reason not to max it out nowadays with RAM being so cheap. More RAM makes more of a difference than a faster CPU.

2) Everyone knows about experimenting with audio sample size. Smaller means lower latency but also means higher CPU. I am currently using 128 sample size because I need the low latency for VST stomp box effects I use when playing a guitar in real time.

3) It helped, when I dropped the sample size to 128, to switch from USB to a quality FireWire audio interface. I use Presonus' Inspire which is discontinued but I consider it better for Macs than the Firestudio Mobile that is now being manufactured. You can buy them off Ebay, used, for just under $100.

4) If you are like me and your computer will not accept anymore RAM, buy a SSD instead. It is not as good as more RAM, but is better than nothing. I bought one of the cheaper 128G SSDs and use it primarily for music.

5) If you have a SSD, keep its available space in excess of 15%. Performance drops dramatically otherwise.

6) Freezing tracks make s huge difference, if what you are doing musically allows it.

7) Ableton's Collect and Save feature also makes a big difference, especially if you Collect and Save to a SSD or a thumb drive. I picked up that tip from an article Craig Anderton wrote about optimizing computers for Ableton:

http://www.harmonycentral.com/t5/Gear-A ... p/34645589

[Whirly]

Thanks istlota. All the things you are listing would be helpfull information under normal circumtances, but as it is, there is something corrupt in either Live 9 or in my setup that I need to resolve before even considering getting more RAM, byuing a SSD disk, etc.

My computer is powerful enough to handle small Live sets like its startup song, still I get massive dropouts and glitches when playing it back at 1024 samples (follow the link in my previous post and listen to the example).

Yesterday I made a track in Reason consisting of about 10 tracks (including two instances of full range multisampled piano libraries) without any problem. As things are with Live at the moment, Live would have kneeled with less than half of that load.

Initally I thought my soundcard caused the problem, but after doing a complete uninstall (manually checking that every single file and folder related to the the soundcard was actually removed) and then doing a fresh install of the lates driver, and still having the same problem with Live, I now have to conclude that my soundcard is fit. It's working flawless with both Cubase and Reason.

Unless Ableton support are reverting with findings that explain my problem, or more Live users are experiencing the same as myself and can help troubleshoot, I'm in the dark and are probably better off leaving Live for the moment. After all, I have two other DAWs working nice and smooth.

[Whirly]

I now think my problem is solved (only tested it briefly).

Apparently I need to deactivate/activate Live's audio engine by clicking in the CPU load meter every time I change the buffer size in preferences. It turns out that with my setup, the buffer size doesn't update automatically just by typing it in, in stead I get massive dropouts/glitches. When deactivating and then activating the audio engine after changing the buffer size the update is done.

As said, I've only tested this briefly but it seem to work.