Native Instruments vs. Live 9 ?

[glitchrock-buddha]

No one seems to have mentioned that Suite comes with this thing called, erm..., 'Ableton Live'.

Komplete doesn't include a DAW.

I think nobody mentioned it because it's a given. He's just ccomparing the Live 9 suite library with Kontakt 4.

[Angstrom]

One thing to remember - if you ever start work in another DAW all of the Ableton sounds will no longer be accessible to you. So all those Orchestral packs, all of your Session Drums presets, and all your Max and Live instrument presets won't work in your new copy of StudioOne .
Whereas something like Kontakt, Massive, Reaktor will move around with you.

[darkenedsoul]

One thing to remember - if you ever start work in another DAW all of Ableton's sounds will no longer be accessible to you, all those Orchestral packs, and instrument presets won't work in your new copy of StudioOne . Whereas something like Kontakt, Massive, Reaktor will move around with you.

He beat me to that point. I have Live 8.x.x 32 bit, 8.4 64 bit, Live 9 32 bit and Presonus Studio One 2.5 32 bit installed and all can access Komplete 7/8 that is installed there (Kontakt 4 or 5). Komplete is a beast and there's a ton of stuff to learn if you really want to dig down below the surface and *learn* those instruments. Live is simpler in that respect as its interface is I think easier to get around in and quicker to access.

Suite 9 does have some nice(r) additions with M4L and the orchestral content, but for me the other stuff isn't worth it to me sounds-wise (hip-hop? puh-lease...why not add more ambient stuff to go along with the orchestral stuff or more cinematic stuff?). The only think I'd perhaps use that stuff (was gonna say c(rap) ) would be to run it through the convolution reverb so you don't even know what the hell it is (I did that with S.I.R. 1.x.x in the past for samples I don't use/need/wanted but came with the libraries....).

Mike

[brettonwoodsapocalypse]

Apples and pears...
Komplete is a lot of sounds with a very messy interface unless you have Maschine
Suite has not so many great sounds but it integrates beautifully.

IF you're a preset maniac go for Komplete but if you want to investigate a bit the synths, build you own sounds then go for the suite as it inetgrates beautifully in Live

[delicioso]

M4L beats the hell out of Reaktor

A rather useless statement without any context.

Also, Battery 4 was just announced.

[Rosko]

I think if you are thinking of buying live go with the suite then start saving up for Komplete.

[Rosko]

Of course, if you factor in Max for Live vs Reaktor, M4L beats the hell out of Reaktor. M4L alone is worth the price of Live.

Agree with most of what you have said apart from this.
Reaktor has a far better library of effects & instruments than M4L and is more accessible to build your own stuff. M4L is brilliantly integrated into live that reaktor will never be.

[kitekrazy]

Komplete 9 + Live 9 >>>>>>> Live 9 Suite.

Without upgrade prices that's a big chunk of change.

Better yet.

Komplete 9 + Reaper >>>>>> Komplete 9 + Live 9 or Live 9 Suite.

This is with no upgrade pricing. Reaper is $69 and stable as can be for Komplete.

[2klo]

M4L beats the hell out of Reaktor

A rather useless statement without any context.

Also, Battery 4 was just announced.

Well if you want context, I'll give you context for M4L which you can't do in Reaktor
- OSC programming
- Direct access to Live's API which in turn allows you to built fully integrated Live devices
- Video processing
- in depth MIDI tweaking
- automation of external parameters

So far Battery 4's improvements over Battery 3 are rather cosmetic. The only feature that seems worth it is the new drag and drop functions. At the end of the day you can do everything Battery does in Drum rack if you are given the same exact sounds. The sounds are better in Battery though.

[naburo]

you can´t compare these to products

[jlgrimes]

Comparing the sound libraries, which would you say is better?

Native Instruments (Kontakt 4) or the Live 9 Suite

Does either sound better or work better?

You are kind of referring apples to oranges. The Ableton instruments are designed more for integration inside the host. Where NI's concept always seem to be Raw Power, extreme flexibility, minimal limitations even if it comes with the cost of a high learning curve to master.

Ableton's Sampler and Simpler are more accessable samplers than Kontakt, but Kontakt is infinitely more powerful and has a waay better factory library, and waaay better 3rd party support.

Operator is a pretty good Ableton synth and is a lot more accessable than like FM8 but then again FM8 is waay more powerful in most cases.

NI pretty much completely smokes Abletons other synths unless you dig more experimental physical modeling stuff, but with Massive, Absynth, FM8, and Reaktor you are pretty much in synth heaven. And Reaktor has some pretty good physical modeling synths as well as some decent VAs and the pure nature of Reaktor and even Absynth is for experimental stuff.

The only area I think where Ableton has an edge over NI is with Battery. Although Battery has a better included library (for the most part), The level of integration with Drum Racks are amazing. I'd say for building your own kits Drum Racks are a lot easier to use although Battery could be more powerful but if you just want simple kits Battery is overkill.


That said it could be argued that NI's instruments are too advanced. IMO sometimes that is a weakness. NI's instruments all have a deep learning curve. Massive and certain basic Reaktor ensembles are probably the most basic stuff to learn on but other than that it goes to infinity and you might find Ableton's stuff to be more direct and quicker for sound design.


When you are referring to sounds I am assuming you are referring to the preset quality since both libraries can be programmed to get you almost anything you'd want (although NI would probably be a lot more flexible to get you there when fully mastered).

I always think Ableton's sound is more experimental in most cases (lots of synthetic sounds, and many of the presets are not simple analog synth emulations). Ableton don't have much acoustic samples (although its Orchestral stuff is nice).

NI's sound is also experimental (Absynth, Reaktor, FM8) but a little more contemporary (FM8, Kontakt, Massive, Battery, and even Reaktor once you start digging user libraries), but overall NI's sound is very diverse, It has no problem doing experimental textures as well as more modern contemporary sounds (although there are better synths for more modern more "radio ready" sounds).

[delicioso]

NI's instruments all have a deep learning curve. Massive and certain basic Reaktor ensembles are probably the most basic stuff to learn on but other than that it goes to infinity and you might find Ableton's stuff to be more direct and quicker for sound design.

Not really, considering Maschine is about the most intuitive instrument to learn. I haven't found anything else that's more direct and quicker for sound design.

Things like Reaktor, Kontakt and Absynth are of course very complex but it's not the case that ALL NI instruments have a deep learning curve. NI seem to be focusing much more on useability and efficient interfaces these days.

[glitchrock-buddha]

Well if you want context, I'll give you context for M4L which you can't do in Reaktor
- OSC programming
...

What do you mean? Reaktor has always handled OSC in standalone and the plug-in has had OSC support since 5.8.

[murgatroid]

I vote for regular Live then add Komplete and/or other third party stuff. Komplete contains an obscene amount of sound creation possibility. Why, with just Skanner XT alone, you can spend a hundred lifetimes loading in audio files and producing your own unique sounds forever.

Face it. Rarely does anyone really do more than scratch the surface with what they already have. We keep buying more stuff just to satisfy the ridiculous notion that, 'if I could only have that, then it'll all be great."

[kevwestbeats]

No one seems to have mentioned that Suite comes with this thing called, erm..., 'Ableton Live'.

Komplete doesn't include a DAW.

I am not even sure how that matters when the Live sounds aren't all that great especially not compared to the sounds from NI. I am not even sure how these 2 things are comparable but if I had enough money for one or the other I would pick NI and sequence in Reaper until I had enough money for Live.