PUSH IT REAL GOOD

halblaine · Post by **halblaine** » Sun Mar 31, 2013 1:15 am

Sup guys! Here's a Push talkin' lounge where we can share experiences and tips & tricks regarding the Push.

Please accept this welcome cocktail

Anything goes! Let's share hacks and exploits & blabber off in a freewheelin' manner

yur2die4 · Post by **yur2die4** » Sun Mar 31, 2013 1:30 am

Tip one: download the most recent manual.........

halblaine · Post by **halblaine** » Sun Mar 31, 2013 1:38 am

link to manual

Cheers yur2die4, I forgot that you're lactose intolerant, here

humnumb · Post by **humnumb** » Sun Mar 31, 2013 1:56 am

Tip two: prepare for annoying workarounds galore to make up for the fact that Push does not have full control over Live out of the box... you gotta do what you gotta do to defend your investment so just put up with it.

halblaine · Post by **halblaine** » Sun Mar 31, 2013 2:06 am

Hopefully it won't take too long before scripts start to float around. A lot of the l33t hax0rz haven't gotten their Push yet, and lots of people know how to code python

lo.key · Post by **lo.key** » Sun Mar 31, 2013 2:32 am

ya, python is nicely readable. Its been interesting browsing through the existing push python code, but it is certainly about time for live to start releasing some more elaborate documentation of the push python script, and more importantly the m4l integration. Ok, the push is out, people are starting to receive their devices, and the existing scripting works, within tolerances, as promised. But the full promise of the device is still to be explored. We need ableton to release a roadmap for push exploration, this is no time to be fumbling in the dark. Documentation, and concrete examples, please and thank you!

jsn · Post by **jsn** » Sun Mar 31, 2013 2:57 am

Hi here is something I found tonight by mistake

If you can hold SELECT and one of the 16 drum pads in the drum Note/seq mode you will see an option to adjust velocity of all notes being triggered by this held pad at once. In the manual it speaks of being able to adjust Vel for each note in the seq but not for an entire pad at once. Just a tip!

Upright · Post by **Upright** » Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:31 am

halblaine wrote:link to manual

Cheers yur2die4, I forgot that you're lactose intolerant, here

Hahaha

halblaine · Post by **halblaine** » Sun Mar 31, 2013 1:55 pm

lo.key wrote:ya, python is nicely readable. Its been interesting browsing through the existing push python code, but it is certainly about time for live to start releasing some more elaborate documentation of the push python script, and more importantly the m4l integration. Ok, the push is out, people are starting to receive their devices, and the existing scripting works, within tolerances, as promised. But the full promise of the device is still to be explored. We need ableton to release a roadmap for push exploration, this is no time to be fumbling in the dark. Documentation, and concrete examples, please and thank you!

I didn't realize that full documentation is needed to push things forward, but if that's the case then fug yes they should accomodate the coders. Maybe I'm pessimistic, but somehow it seems a bit unlikely that Ableton will release that any time soon. Still, how can it be anything but a good thing? Maybe we should start pushing them through an e-mail bombing campaign or something? What do you think?

humnumb · Post by **humnumb** » Sun Mar 31, 2013 4:04 pm

halblaine wrote:
lo.key wrote:ya, python is nicely readable. Its been interesting browsing through the existing push python code, but it is certainly about time for live to start releasing some more elaborate documentation of the push python script, and more importantly the m4l integration. Ok, the push is out, people are starting to receive their devices, and the existing scripting works, within tolerances, as promised. But the full promise of the device is still to be explored. We need ableton to release a roadmap for push exploration, this is no time to be fumbling in the dark. Documentation, and concrete examples, please and thank you!
I didn't realize that full documentation is needed to push things forward, but if that's the case then fug yes they should accomodate the coders. Maybe I'm pessimistic, but somehow it seems a bit unlikely that Ableton will release that any time soon. Still, how can it be anything but a good thing? Maybe we should start pushing them through an e-mail bombing campaign or something? What do you think?

Just playing a little devil's advocate here.. If Live and Push was such an "open platform" as lo.key has suggested, then wouldn't Ableton have gone with PureData 4 Live instead of requiring you to purchase Max 4 live? And wouldn't they have a wiki documentation of the Live/Push APIs freely available already instead of what we know about it now only being available because people like Julien Bayle reverse engineered the python code?

lo.key · Post by **lo.key** » Sun Mar 31, 2013 4:58 pm

thats a failure of documentation (and a massive one at that), but the hooks are there, regardless.

halblaine · Post by **halblaine** » Sun Mar 31, 2013 5:09 pm

Sorry for the n00bness, but what advantage does Ableton get from keeping their cards close to the chest? It seems to me that the more scripts, the more ways of using the Push, more buzz, more incentive to buy for people who haven't. I'm not a businessman, but it seems like a prosperous thing to let it grow freely, and let the community do the work. The APC was pretty gimped before the scripts expanded its use.

Has Mr. Bayle reverse engineered the whole tabernacle? If so, I guess it's already ready for hacking?

What exactly do you mean that the hooks are there?

?
? ?

lo.key · Post by **lo.key** » Sun Mar 31, 2013 5:36 pm

i completely agree, theres absolutely no reason that would prevent them from releasing the details, especially at this point.

by hooks, i just mean that the capabilities are in place to restructure the behaviour of the device, in that we can receive information from the device, and send control data back to control leds behaviour. Which is all thats necessary to fundamentally alter what the device does. Its more monome than mpc, lets put it that way.

However, there's no reason ableton shouldnt be making this process as easy as they can.

humnumb · Post by **humnumb** » Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:27 pm

I sense a bit of projecting of one's own fantasies about what you wish Live and Push were instead of what they really are.

You can't on one hand make proclamations about Live and Push saying that:

lo.key wrote:This is an open hardware platform controlling an open audio platform.

and then in the very next breath complain that

lo.key wrote:it is certainly about time for live to start releasing some more elaborate documentation of the push python script, and more importantly the m4l integration. Ok, the push is out, people are starting to receive their devices, and the existing scripting works, within tolerances, as promised. But the full promise of the device is still to be explored. We need ableton to release a roadmap for push exploration, this is no time to be fumbling in the dark. Documentation, and concrete examples, please and thank you!

What we're really dealing with here is a commercial endeavor utilizing closed, proprietary software and hardware platforms that some hackers managed to reverse-engineer to make it more open. Ableton Live is not an open software platform like the free and open source software like Ardour.

Pure Data (PD) is a redesigned, open source progression of the work on Max, both developed by Miller S. Puckette. Puckette's colleague David Zicarelli founded the company Cycling ’74 as a commercial distributor for Max and adapted the audio signal processing functionality of PD as an add-on for Max called MSP, resulting in Max/MSP as a proprietary, commercial application. Pure Data, on the other hand, remains a free and open source environment for anyone to download and even modify at their discretion. There has been a long and bloody rivalry between those who would make new media art with Pure Data, a free, open source graphical programming language, and proponents of MAX/MSP, PD's slick, commercial half-brother.

halblaine · Post by **halblaine** » Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:40 pm

Ableton's general stance is "well, the Push wasn't made for that" - It's made for composing, yet in a very specific way. Most people's way of composing music involves more than inputting the midi data through performance and then amassing a pile of clips. I think it's great for what it is, but the way they insist on a reductionist approach to such a well-built and potentially versatile piece of gear actually puzzles me a bit.

Surely we project our fantasies onto the Push, but they're not far-fetched fantasies, like lo.key says they don't really have much to lose by letting the community start customizing it. But if I understand Julian Bayle's effort correctly then it probably won't take long until some person makes a script that doubles (or triples) the use of the device anyway, so I'm not too disturbed about the official stance

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