Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine

[skatr2]

Before you make assumptions based on Marketing hype, YouTubes or random praises or disses, you should try to get your hands on one. Buy it or demo it.

Best advice here. Play with it first.

[blinkeye]

I know their NI scripts have changed now to use live, but when I had it, I couldn't step sequence directly to live and setup was something I felt I was always playing with. every tutorial from the official ni ones to the random ones on youtube I saw had a different way to do it and for some reason it would randomly stop working. As I stated, I know they have made improvements here...I just can't speak to them.

Yeah, Maschine's new Live template is awesome: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnP1RM788Z4&t=03m11s
And the randomly losing connection on OS X bug was fixed a while ago.
Oh, and you can definitely use Maschine to step sequence directly into Live. You just need to use Maschine's MIDI Out option for each Sound, use Sounds To MIDI Setup and set the Base Key on the controller for every pad so that it matches the Sounds To MIDI root.

[skatr2]

Oh, and you can definitely use Maschine to step sequence directly into Live. You just need to use Maschine's MIDI Out option for each Sound, use Sounds To MIDI Setup and set the Base Key on the controller for every pad so that it matches the Sounds To MIDI root.

That's the exact function for some reason I could never get to work. And a huge problem I had with maschine...having to route so many things to get the two to work within a specific workflow. From this perspective alone, push is a huge help on my end. Don't need to route midi anything...just play away. But again, lots have used maschine successfully, I just know from my experience it doesn't fit in the way I work.

[blinkeye]

Oh, and you can definitely use Maschine to step sequence directly into Live. You just need to use Maschine's MIDI Out option for each Sound, use Sounds To MIDI Setup and set the Base Key on the controller for every pad so that it matches the Sounds To MIDI root.

That's the exact function for some reason I could never get to work. And a huge problem I had with maschine...having to route so many things to get the two to work within a specific workflow. From this perspective alone, push is a huge help on my end. Don't need to route midi anything...just play away. But again, lots have used maschine successfully, I just know from my experience it doesn't fit in the way I work.

That step sequencing into Live setup only needs to be done once the first time but yeah, Maschine works great for me including controlling Live.

[Buleriachk]

I just received and installed my Maschine Mikro Mk2, and have been running it as a VST inside Live. I have to say I am really, really impressed with it, and the library (I haven't received my link to Massive yet). I am using my APC40 for control, and the Maschine for Maschine, since I can't get the drivers for Maschine to install properly.

I get the following error (Win7 x64, Live 9.02 Suite x32):

Native Instruments Maschine Mikro
Error (when I try to install downloaded driver): Could not access network location \Native Instruments\Installer Log.
Maschine Mikro MK2 DFU No Driver Found.

(there is also an error in Device Manager with "Other Devices: and the DFU error.)

But other than that, I am delighted with the Mikro and the way it is set up.
I'll probably get Push eventually, but so far it seems it is not quite yet ready for Prime Time...

[SuburbanThug]

I don't mind doing my sampling in the box as I tend to do a lot of editing (breakcore/idm). I think this is what made me go for the Push. I was lacking an instrument for creative writing. A keyboard or piano roll can get repetitive for me as I often end up using the same scales. Initially I was just looking for a decent controller for automation purposes. In that right Maschine would have been more powerful than Push (though this is changing as we speak with new scripts in the works [thank you hackerz!].) The combination of a sketchpad, instrument, and performance controller is what is going to make the Push the right choice for me. In my first day with it I've already broken old writing habits and gotten back in the zone with my writing. I don't think this would have happened if I had gone for Maschine's 16 pad layout. The workflow improvement with Push is also a big seller for me.

[onestep]

I don't mind doing my sampling in the box as I tend to do a lot of editing (breakcore/idm). I think this is what made me go for the Push. I was lacking an instrument for creative writing. A keyboard or piano roll can get repetitive for me as I often end up using the same scales. Initially I was just looking for a decent controller for automation purposes. In that right Maschine would have been more powerful than Push (though this is changing as we speak with new scripts in the works [thank you hackerz!].) The combination of a sketchpad, instrument, and performance controller is what is going to make the Push the right choice for me. In my first day with it I've already broken old writing habits and gotten back in the zone with my writing. I don't think this would have happened if I had gone for Maschine's 16 pad layout.

While Maschine does give you the option to go completely mouseless, you can also use the mouse and stare at the computer screen as much you want (or as little as you want). I'm sure a lot of people use a combination of both to suit their preference. Also, just because Maschine has only 16 pads doesn't mean you can't use other controllers with it including all kinds of iPad controller apps with 64 to even 256 pads with isomorphic layouts and scales.

Maschine is a much better option as a general all-purpose controller IMO because its MIDI mode lets you create as many templates as you want to turn whatever software you have into a hardware instrument, using the supplied Controller Editor which is very straightforward to use. I make glitchy idm stuff too and I find Maschine quite well suited for that actually: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cy6Njb9SgmU

[pencilrocket]

Rather, I like his performance w/o maschine

[SuburbanThug]

While Maschine does give you the option to go completely mouseless, you can also use the mouse and stare at the computer screen as much you want (or as little as you want). I'm sure a lot of people use a combination of both to suit their preference. Also, just because Maschine has only 16 pads doesn't mean you can't use other controllers with it including all kinds of iPad controller apps with 64 to even 256 pads with isomorphic layouts and scales.

Maschine is a much better option as a general all-purpose controller IMO because its MIDI mode lets you create as many templates as you want to turn whatever software you have into a hardware instrument, using the supplied Controller Editor which is very straightforward to use. I make glitchy idm stuff too and I find Maschine quite well suited for that actually: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cy6Njb9SgmU

My impression is that Maschine is focused on sampling. Sampling for me is technical work better done in the box as I like to be pretty precise and then I like to cut, chop, and rearrange in Arrangement view in Live or just dump a bunch of samples into Reason and arrange. That's not to say I couldn't use Maschine as a small keyboard with some nice knobs and I did actually consider going with Maschine and another keyboard style controller. That's just not compact enough for my style right now. Push is looking like an all-inclusive solution for sketching ideas and performing on the go.

Further down the line Maschine might be on my list but really I expect hacked scripts to solve any issues I can see having with Push. I like the idea that Maschine automaps 128 parameters but honestly I can't say I'd need that many and I don't love flipping through multiple pages on small screens looking for what I need to tweek. Sound design I prefer to do mostly on the laptop. Outside the box I'd like to sketch and perform. I like your performance but I can't see how Maschine would make arranging complex strings of cut up breaks complete with tiny edits any more enjoyable than in Arrangement view. In fact I can see you doing the exact same performance on a Push as you are basically triggering scenes and individual samples and effecting them on the fly if I'm not incorrect.

If Push can't provide the same responsiveness as a Maschine in live performance I will probably just pick up an APC40 to suit those needs. To each his own. When I was more into hip hop and ambient style electronic music I would have loved to work with Maschine.

[3dot...]

While Maschine does give you the option to go completely mouseless, you can also use the mouse and stare at the computer screen as much you want (or as little as you want). I'm sure a lot of people use a combination of both to suit their preference. Also, just because Maschine has only 16 pads doesn't mean you can't use other controllers with it including all kinds of iPad controller apps with 64 to even 256 pads with isomorphic layouts and scales.

Maschine is a much better option as a general all-purpose controller IMO because its MIDI mode lets you create as many templates as you want to turn whatever software you have into a hardware instrument, using the supplied Controller Editor which is very straightforward to use. I make glitchy idm stuff too and I find Maschine quite well suited for that actually: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cy6Njb9SgmU

My impression is that Maschine is focused on sampling. Sampling for me is technical work better done in the box as I like to be pretty precise and then I like to cut, chop, and rearrange in Arrangement view in Live or just dump a bunch of samples into Reason and arrange. That's not to say I couldn't use Maschine as a small keyboard with some nice knobs and I did actually consider going with Maschine and another keyboard style controller. That's just not compact enough for my style right now. Push is looking like an all-inclusive solution for sketching ideas and performing on the go. Further down the line Maschine might be on my list but really I expect hacked scripts to solve any issues I can see having with Push. I like the idea that Maschine automaps 128 parameters but honestly I can't say I'd need that many and I don't love flipping through multiple pages on small screens looking for what I need to tweek. Sound design I prefer to do mostly on the laptop. Outside the box I'd like to sketch and perform. I like your performance but I can't see how Maschine would make arranging complex strings of cut up breaks complete with tiny edits any more enjoyable than in Arrangement view. In fact I can see you doing the exact same performance on a Push as you are basically triggering scenes and individual samples and effecting them on the fly if I'm not incorrect. If Push can't provide the same responsiveness as a Maschine in live performance I will probably just pick up an APC40 to suit those needs. To each his own. When I was more into hip hop and ambient style electronic music I would have loved to work with Maschine.

might want to use the 'enter' key once in a while...

[onestep]

My impression is that Maschine is focused on sampling. Sampling for me is technical work better done in the box as I like to be pretty precise and then I like to cut, chop, and rearrange in Arrangement view in Live or just dump a bunch of samples into Reason and arrange. That's not to say I couldn't use Maschine as a small keyboard with some nice knobs and I did actually consider going with Maschine and another keyboard style controller. That's just not compact enough for my style right now.

Maschine and something like a LPK25 is a very compact setup. Anyway, just goes to show that a "sampling workflow" can mean very different things to people. I come from a hardware background like MPCs so being able to be hands on without having to click around with a mouse is very important to my sampling and sound design workflow. For the type of detailed mouse work on linear arrangement view like you're talking about, I find Logic to be a better fit (which I use to mix in): http://vimeo.com/8455759

I like your performance but I can't see how Maschine would make arranging complex strings of cut up breaks complete with tiny edits any more enjoyable than in Arrangement view.

I guess I'm the opposite of that. I would not enjoy mousing around to arrange tiny edits of cut up breaks in a linear arrangement view at all, especially when I can do the same with the Maschine hardware. Oh, and that was Tim Exile in the video by the way. I was just showing that as an example of the different things you can do with it in MIDI mode.

[SuburbanThug]

I guess I'm the opposite of that. I would not enjoy mousing around to arrange tiny edits of cut up breaks in a linear arrangement view at all, especially when I can do the same with the Maschine hardware. Oh, and that was Tim Exile in the video by the way. I was just showing that as an example of the different things you can do with it in MIDI mode.

The kind of editing I do can't be done in any fast, meaningful way on Maschine. I am not just cutting breaks (old-school), I am chopping whole songs or stems I've written, sometimes as I write them. Yes Logic is decent for this kind of editing. As far as the video you posted I achieve the same thing (no loss of timbre due to warping) by chopping unwarped samples to a drum rack and sequencing them. That method is so old-school! Haha. This method is pretty conducive to the Push environment as well. No looking at that darned screen!

[dysanfel]

Not sure if anyone cares but I did buy a Maschine Mk2 and not a Push. My final reasoning was:

1) Maschine is a more mature platform with a few more years of development under its belt.
2) I have always believed that using different tools from different companies together gives a more unique sound so mixing NI with Live accomplishes this.
3) I can always buy a Push later if I want too.
4) The sound sets in Maschine are incredible sounding.
5) It came with a full version of Massive and a $30 credit at their store.
6) There are far more tutorials and help videos for Maschine than Push.
7) The Maschine is smaller and takes less real estate on my already cramped workspace.
8. The initial roll out of Push seems a bit rushed as demand was grossly underestimated, or Akai cannot handle production.
9) There are far more expansions available for Maschine than Push as it stands today.
10) I don't need yet another Ableton Live Intro license.
11) No need for a power cord to get full colored pads
12) Push has no din MIDI I/0 on the back. (The again, PUSH has sustain pedal)

So there we go. I will probably end up with a Push eventually, but for now I think I made the best decision for me.

[Buleriachk]

I agree with this perspective; I purchased Maschine Mikro Mk2, and am very satisfied with it (except the controller drivers won't install, so I can't use it as a control surface in Live 9; but it does control Maschine surface just fine.

The sound sets with Maschine and Massive are the best I've heard to date, with the exception if Sylenth (which is also great); the ability to deconstruct tracks easily is a major learning tool for contemporary sound... (I rather imagine that Maschine has been used on more professional AV productions than Live)

I upgraded from Live 8 to Live 9 Suite, and after stepping through all the devices and samples in Suite, I can say that they don't compare with those included in Maschine. Mind you, if Maschine weren't available, I would still be grateful to Ableton for their effort.

Live's major advantage (and it is a HUGE advantage) is its seamless time stretching of audio (especially to match time signatures with the correct BPM). So its core advantage would be in Live performance if one is dragging and recording clips as they happen (using APC40, Luaunchpad, or even the computer keyboard). One can do this in Maschie, but it is not nearly as effortless.

I am really, really happy with both of them - Maschine is a huge system, and using it Live is awesome indeed....

(I do kind of think that Push may be a solution looking for a problem)

Not sure if anyone cares but I did buy a Maschine Mk2 and not a Push. My final reasoning was:

1) Maschine is a more mature platform with a few more years of development under its belt.
2) I have always believed that using different tools from different companies together gives a more unique sound so mixing NI with Live accomplishes this.
3) I can always buy a Push later if I want too.
4) The sound sets in Maschine are incredible sounding.
5) It came with a full version of Massive and a $30 credit at their store.
6) There are far more tutorials and help videos for Maschine than Push.
7) The Maschine is smaller and takes less real estate on my already cramped workspace.
8. The initial roll out of Push seems a bit rushed as demand was grossly underestimated, or Akai cannot handle production.
9) There are far more expansions available for Maschine than Push as it stands today.
10) I don't need yet another Ableton Live Intro license.
11) No need for a power cord to get full colored pads
12) Push has no din MIDI I/0 on the back. (The again, PUSH has sustain pedal)

So there we go. I will probably end up with a Push eventually, but for now I think I made the best decision for me.

[dysanfel]

(I do kind of think that Push may be a solution looking for a problem)

Oh my, that is a VERY deep statement that stopped me in my tracks when I read it and really got me thinking.

I didn't want to go as far as you did on the sound quality of the Maschine sound sets, but I do agree with you completely.