finally... BITWIG STUDIO! beta 'soon'...

[re:dream]

I don't think that is fair

Fair? What's 'fair'?

[lowshelf]

Give 'em credit, they've already announced features for version 2. That's two levels deep vapour. It has me concerned about their long term viability, because by now I would have expected to hear about version 5's feature set.

[SpeedKing]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOr4Bxk-ctc
Not much to see here but it's the "first track released into the wild using Bitwig Studio beta." So as you can see... it can at least play audio files and warp them

I have no issue with using multiple DAWs. It keeps things interesting, breaks me of habits. I'm excited to see what these guys do but it will take a while for the product to mature. It doesn't send midi out??? Seems like a crazy big oversight. Sounds like they're just trying to get this baby out the gate.

Well, that was cool to see Bitwig functioning and doing stuff at least. Like I've said before, I'm excited to see what Bitwig can do and how it'll be. And yeah, they have a long uphill slog to edge out DAW players that have been around for years. However, basically taking ideas from things that other DAWs do well, as well as implementing new and cool features, and putting them into one program, that's no small feat. Even if they did 'steal' some of the larger ideas from other DAWs, that's basically what progress is, is people improving on someone else's ideas. If that wasn't the name of the game, then Ford would still be the world's only car maker.

But yeah, still, it's an uphill battle. And I didn't know about no MIDI out. Seriously? That seems like a big thing, and the way I use some of my VSTs, if I'm understanding what you're saying, that would seriously hamper what I do at some point. Yikes.

[UncleAge]

Hardest job for Bitwig is still to come - that's tempting people to switch from Cubase, Live, Protools, Reaper, Logic...

I never thought of Live as an "either/or" to Sonar, ProTools, Logic or any of those. To me it was always an "and". It seems to me that the competition might be more of FLS, Live, Reason which IMHO are used more to compose in rather than traditional linear, tape recorder styled DAWs.

[SuburbanThug]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOr4Bxk-ctc
Not much to see here but it's the "first track released into the wild using Bitwig Studio beta." So as you can see... it can at least play audio files and warp them

I have no issue with using multiple DAWs. It keeps things interesting, breaks me of habits. I'm excited to see what these guys do but it will take a while for the product to mature. It doesn't send midi out??? Seems like a crazy big oversight. Sounds like they're just trying to get this baby out the gate.

Well, that was cool to see Bitwig functioning and doing stuff at least. Like I've said before, I'm excited to see what Bitwig can do and how it'll be. And yeah, they have a long uphill slog to edge out DAW players that have been around for years. However, basically taking ideas from things that other DAWs do well, as well as implementing new and cool features, and putting them into one program, that's no small feat. Even if they did 'steal' some of the larger ideas from other DAWs, that's basically what progress is, is people improving on someone else's ideas. If that wasn't the name of the game, then Ford would still be the world's only car maker.

But yeah, still, it's an uphill battle. And I didn't know about no MIDI out. Seriously? That seems like a big thing, and the way I use some of my VSTs, if I'm understanding what you're saying, that would seriously hamper what I do at some point. Yikes.

The midi out thing was in reference to external instruments but now that I think about it there has to be some kind of workaround anyway. They aren't going to support Rewire but are using an alternative called Jack or something to that effect. It sounds like however you like to use your plugins you'll be able to use Jack for it. Maybe with Jack you can figure a workaround for controlling hardware? Seems likely...

I also see this program as an "and." Just as I will probably be using Logic for mixdown in the future I'm looking at Bitwig as kind of an alternative to Reason since the modular system looks like it will be a creative and easy way to work. I'll probably keep using Reason though too. And I can't see not using Live for a lot of things but, he, I could be wrong. Maybe this first release will be all enveloping for my workflow and I'll never leave it's sweet embrace. Doubt it!

[wasoota]

The midi out thing was in reference to external instruments but now that I think about it there has to be some kind of workaround anyway. They aren't going to support Rewire but are using an alternative called Jack or something to that effect.

Jesus man, read up. Jack is what ReWire dreams of becoming when it grows up. And then it breaks down in tears when it realizes it never will.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=jack+audio&l=1

Midi and Audio routing every which way. Every which way.

[Angstrom]

Yeaaah ... Jack enthusiasts always overlook a little something.


From : how to use Jack in Windows:

Add the following information to the 'Target' property: "C:\Program Files\Jack\jackd.exe" -R -S -d portaudio -d "ASIO::ASIO4ALL v2" [This configures Jack to use the ASIO4ALL v2 driver, if you have another ASIO device then configure the 'Target' property with that device name. For a list of all the audio devices on your system that Jack can connect to, open a Command Prompt, change directory to the Jack folder (i.e. cd "c:\Program Files (x86)\Jack\") then run this command: jackd -d portaudio -l (that's an 'ell' for List, not a 'one') , this will present you with the list of supported devices.]

The Jack v 1.9.8/64bits/JackRouter.dll still has to be registered "manually" with regsvr32 - so please try the following command to register the 64-bit JackRouter:

regsvr32 "C:\Program Files (x86)\Jack v1.9.8\64bits\JackRouter.dll"

the only real operating system is the one you compiled yourself, right?

[broc]

The midi out thing was in reference to external instruments but now that I think about it there has to be some kind of workaround anyway. They aren't going to support Rewire but are using an alternative called Jack or something to that effect.

Jesus man, read up. Jack is what ReWire dreams of becoming when it grows up. And then it breaks down in tears when it realizes it never will.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=jack+audio&l=1

Midi and Audio routing every which way. Every which way.

Jack doesn't support two-way transport synchronization which is an essential feature of ReWire.

[SuburbanThug]

Damn, Wasoota. You just got told. Just kidding. I only really stay informed on what is essential to what I'm doing or want to do at the moment. I'm sure I'll get a little nerdier in the future since I just quit smoking tons of high quality marijuana a few months ago. It's been an enlightening few months as far as learning more about DAWs and gear in general. Just started learning how to use VFX to use Windows plugins on my Mac. One day at a time, one day at a time...

[wasoota]

Damn, Wasoota. You just got told. Just kidding. I only really stay informed on what is essential to what I'm doing or want to do at the moment. I'm sure I'll get a little nerdier in the future since I just quit smoking tons of high quality marijuana a few months ago. It's been an enlightening few months as far as learning more about DAWs and gear in general. Just started learning how to use VFX to use Windows plugins on my Mac. One day at a time, one day at a time...

lol, well we all get what we need. I have no use for two way synchro, but I do 'need' all the wild routing I can get. ReWire feels like a glorified line-in to me, albeit synchronized.


For what it's worth, Angstrom's install quote is obsolete, the Jack page unfortunately hasn't been updated to reflect current procedure. As per Jack 1.9.9 all you need to do is unzip it all and set the -S flag in QJackCTL options (no command line). This is from the included readme:

start qjackctl.exe and configure it the following way:

- in Setup/Setting, use "jackd -S" at the "Server Path" item. WARNING: on Windows the "-S" parameter is *mandatory* to have the jack server correctly working!!

- in Setup/Setting, use "portaudio" at the "Driver" item

Nothing to compile. But to each his own. The benefits need to be seen to be believed though.

[Tarekith]

(Although who knows, that may very well be something they've had to do in order to continue raising development money ...)
..

This was exactly the reason they gave at NAMM for the early announcement.

Full disclosure, I'm getting my info second hand, but I have no reason to doubt the person telling me what they discussed with BitWig.

[444pio]

any body using Venegence samples... what do you think??

[wasoota]

Harrison Mixbus supports jack with no issues whatsoever. Transport Sync is in Jack for Linux, I've never bothered to check in windows. Jack is tried and true technology under Linux, I'm frankly amazed we're even having this argument.

If you want to have a cross-plattform DAW you need to use cross-plattform tools. ReWire is not cross-platform, and that's not Bitwig's fault.

The bottom line is if you don't need to route audio or midi between programs you don't need jack, just use your regular drivers.

[broc]

I didn't know that Jack provides some basic transport control. But from what I read it seems to require special support from the connected apps which is currently not implemented in any conventional DAW like Live, Logic, Cubase etc.

[H20nly]

Yeaaah ... Jack enthusiasts always overlook a little something.


From : how to use Jack in Windows:

Add the following information to the 'Target' property: "C:\Program Files\Jack\jackd.exe" -R -S -d portaudio -d "ASIO::ASIO4ALL v2" [This configures Jack to use the ASIO4ALL v2 driver, if you have another ASIO device then configure the 'Target' property with that device name. For a list of all the audio devices on your system that Jack can connect to, open a Command Prompt, change directory to the Jack folder (i.e. cd "c:\Program Files (x86)\Jack\") then run this command: jackd -d portaudio -l (that's an 'ell' for List, not a 'one') , this will present you with the list of supported devices.]

The Jack v 1.9.8/64bits/JackRouter.dll still has to be registered "manually" with regsvr32 - so please try the following command to register the 64-bit JackRouter:

regsvr32 "C:\Program Files (x86)\Jack v1.9.8\64bits\JackRouter.dll"

the only real operating system is the one you compiled yourself, right?

oof. i would certainly hope they've come up with something a little more user friendly. manually registering .dll files and the like isn't exactly super user stuff, but it's more than one should have to do to make a piece of software released... we'll just say after 2010 to be fair... work with what is essentially old hat IMHO (i'm glancing at Rewire features).

i wonder what you'd have to do to get this up and running on a Mac???

i'll raise a toast to full installation installers... any thing less is uncivilized.