Complex pro not available as default warp mode in preference

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sqook
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Complex pro not available as default warp mode in preference

Post by sqook » Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:19 am

This bug has been in Live ever since it got the Complex Pro warp mode, and I've been faithfully reporting it during beta testing in every major release since then. :)

Anyways, as said, Complex Pro is missing from the Preferences in the option for setting the default warp mode. Since this is the one which sounds the best for complete tracks, it would be rather nice to have for DJ's and such.

[nis]
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Re: Complex pro not available as default warp mode in preference

Post by [nis] » Thu Mar 21, 2013 8:03 pm

Hi,

Sorry to disappoint you. This is not a bug, but left out on purpose. The Complex Pro mode is very CPU intensive and can cause dropouts, especially at clip start / loop points, even when only playing a few clips. It should be used very carefully and only when it really makes sense. A common mistake is that the Complex and Complex Pro mode are understood as "best sounding" algorithms, which is not true in all situations.

Best,
Nico
Nico Starke
Ableton Product Team

sqook
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Re: Complex pro not available as default warp mode in preference

Post by sqook » Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:46 pm

That is indeed disappointing to hear. I still feel that it should be up to the user to determine their favorite warp mode, and even my aging 3 year-old laptop can comfortably play several complex pro warped tracks without running out of CPU.

Anyways, glad to have an authoritative answer on this, because in previous versions of Live which I had reported this bug, I was told it was either an actual bug in the backlog or ignored. Better to know that I'll just have to keep the habit of switching all tracks to this warp mode.

102455
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Re: Complex pro not available as default warp mode in preference

Post by 102455 » Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:15 pm

sqook wrote:it should be up to the user
You can say that again!

Really Ableton should give the users CHOICE in all sorts of areas:

Choice of having indexing on or off. Choice of using metadata in the browser. Choice of what information is displayed in the browser, etc. etc....

Instead they make their own decisions on what's needed and what isn't.

Coupe70
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Re: Complex pro not available as default warp mode in preference

Post by Coupe70 » Sat Mar 23, 2013 2:27 am

sqook wrote:That is indeed disappointing to hear. I still feel that it should be up to the user to determine their favorite warp mode
+1
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Tarekith
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Re: Complex pro not available as default warp mode in preference

Post by Tarekith » Sat Mar 23, 2013 3:54 am

ARGH, this drives me so crazy that we can't choose this. You let people choose 192kHz sample rates but we can't choose the best warp mode? We don't all have computers from 1990.

mr.ergonomics
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Re: Complex pro not available as default warp mode in preference

Post by mr.ergonomics » Sat Mar 23, 2013 4:26 am

+1

I agree that complex pro is not the best in all cases. I rarely use it, but I (still) see Live as an professional tool. I admire the wish for simple solutions, but protecting the user with "over simplification" is wrong. Simple isn't better when it limits you too much to archive your goals. Or when it doesn't allow to adjust the program for the personal work flow.

best regards

banned
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Re: Complex pro not available as default warp mode in preference

Post by banned » Sat Apr 06, 2013 8:40 pm

[nis] wrote:Hi,

Sorry to disappoint you. This is not a bug, but left out on purpose. The Complex Pro mode is very CPU intensive and can cause dropouts, especially at clip start / loop points, even when only playing a few clips. It should be used very carefully and only when it really makes sense. A common mistake is that the Complex and Complex Pro mode are understood as "best sounding" algorithms, which is not true in all situations.

Best,
Nico
So Ableton is assuming that Live users are in general not very careful and do not know what makes sense. Go figure. :?

[nis]
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Re: Complex pro not available as default warp mode in preference

Post by [nis] » Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:36 pm

Banned, this forum is about beta bugs and, as I already clarified above, the issue discussed in this topic is technically not a bug, but specified behavior. When the Complex Pro mode was introduced 4 years ago, performance problems have indeed been a valid concern. If you feel that this is no longer true, because your computer is now powerful enough to run a whole project in complex pro mode, then I'd encourage you to make another post in the wishlist forum and probably put up a survey to let other people vote if their computers can handle the load as well. If so, we might consider to change that at some point in the future.

However, starting discussions in a beta forum about company philosophies and what Ableton could possibly assume about its user base is
a) not very helpful to anyone and
b) simply the wrong place

Topic closed.
Nico Starke
Ableton Product Team

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