Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine

[deva]

It is a way different animal than a keyboard and can be more playable if you use the provided layouts rather than a straight chromatic style layout. A lot of things that you might have a tough time managing rhythmically on a keyboard are easier and faster on it.

I know, but none of that requires Push. I can already to all that on my iPad using Musix for example. Push really doesn't offer much over what I already have between Maschine and the iPad.

Is the iPad velocity and aftertouch sensitive?

[SuburbanThug]

The fact remains that I don't know any self respecting musicians other than drummers that would limit themselves to playing an "instrument" that only had a range of 16 notes at a time.

Sorry but I definitely make a distinction between playing a musical instrument and arranging audio files and triggering pre-written midi sequences on the fly. I don't see one as creatively superior to the other but I do see a distinction. In effect the way most performers of sample based and midi based music operate is like a composer rather than a musician. He is telling his machines what to play, when, and how. A musician is merely playing one melodic instrument in a given range of notes.

These two products have their own individual strengths. I can only assume that you and a couple other people on this forum must be shills for NI or just straight up trolling for the simple fact that you deny that Push could possibly have any advantage over Maschine on any front, for any customer looking for any specific thing. It seems you are being completely disingenuous or at least un-objective.

Do you really mean to tell me that there is no conceivable reason that an informed consumer would buy a Push rather than a Maschine? What if they want a higher range of immediately accessible notes while retaining portability? Do you really suggest that they buy a keyboard to plug into Maschine and carry that along with them? What if they don't want to mess with midi porting and just want to get down to business with Live? Would you really suggest that Maschine is just as plug and play as Push? Seriously.

They are two different things and one cannot replace all the functionality of the other. To state so is plainly disingenuous and insulting to the intelligence of everyone you address.

[deva]

As far as drums are concerned, yes. Maschine is an instrument. Like a drum set. As far as melodic content goes I'd be hard pressed to find any useful instrument that only allows you to play 16 notes at a time. Just going off the top of my head here.

You're not at all limited to just 16 notes at a time when playing on Maschine.

You exactly are limited to that 16 on Maschine. If you are playing another instrument, then that is not Maschine.

[Buleriachk]

Boy, is this ever a tempest in a teapot....

[onestep]

Man. This instrument argument is flat out ignorant.

Maschine can play chords and/or leads perfectly fine on its own. Although you probably would be better off playing one Or the other.

When you throw the word 'self respecting' into an argument, I tend to consider you a bafoon by default. It is a term used by people fearful of falling off the imaginary pedestal of superiority they imagine themselves prancing around on.

The truth is, there are many instruments that are monophonic and have limited range. Who the eff cares. You can still play Mary Had a Little Lamb in major, minor, or some other kind of abstraction.

There is easy access to Octave up and down.

Aside from that, although I know that no 'self respecting musician' would bother playing experimental music, it is down for unique forms of pattern and expression given both the limitations of its layout, and also the unique feel and controls that it offers.

There is no point in continuing the useless debate as to which device is more musical than the other. If I want to be inspired, I'm sure I could find a person dedicated to banging rocks together more interesting of a musician due to their dedication to their instrument, than some wank-off 3rd generation jazz pianist with no passion or soul. (I understand that this last statement is full of it, but it still demonstrates the ideals I mean to get across).

NEXT

Well put.

[SuburbanThug]

Although you probably would be better off playing one Or the other.

This is all I'm saying in reference to it's limited range. If you need more range a midi keyboard or Push would be a suitable alternative.

When you throw the word 'self respecting' into an argument, I tend to consider you a bafoon by default. It is a term used by people fearful of falling off the imaginary pedestal of superiority they imagine themselves prancing around on.

I'll accept this criticism. I shouldn't have thrown that in there. My conception is that Push is supposed to be an instrument that can stand on equal (or near equal) footing with a piano or a guitar or a trumpet in terms of range and access to notes and playability as well as providing some of the functionality of a clip launcher and a sequencer. That is why I see it as more of an instrument than Maschine. I've felt my way around Maschine as well as other similar device such as MPCs and they really don't compare in the playability department from my personal experience. I wouldn't choose that style layout for playing melodies with both hands in a traditional sense.

[blinkeye]

Hmmm... I wonder whose sock SuburbanThug is? -> "Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2013"

deva? panten? skatr2? Is that you?

[panten]

Hang on a minute, I've been pretty impartial this whole thread; viewing arguments from both sides. Pointing out a negative point for one controller does not make me a fanboy for the other.
Why so inflammatory all the time guys?

[mutant23]

The fact remains that I don't know any self respecting musicians other than drummers that would limit themselves to playing an "instrument" that only had a range of 16 notes at a time.

Congratulations! You've just said one of the stupidest things I've heard here in a while.

[yur2die4]

It is perfectly fine to have a personal preference

One thing I need practice with is, one hand on Maschine, another on keys/push unfortunately, that leaves very little room for tweaking

Not to mention, I'm not even remotely as coordinated as Jeremy Ellis haha

[Buleriachk]

The reason I need a Push is because I have at least 20 fingers.... (last time I counted...)

[SuburbanThug]

The fact remains that I don't know any self respecting musicians other than drummers that would limit themselves to playing an "instrument" that only had a range of 16 notes at a time.

Congratulations! You've just said one of the stupidest things I've heard here in a while.

I'll say it again: I admit that statement is way over the line. Truth be told I consider the turntable to be an instrument. It's just not what I would choose to write my chord arrangements on

[blinkeye]

One thing I need practice with is, one hand on Maschine, another on keys/push unfortunately, that leaves very little room for tweaking

Not sure why you'd want to do all that at the same time. Those are all separate tasks for me. I can be focused on playing the pads, then switch over to keys, and then focus on tweaking.

[panten]

One thing I need practice with is, one hand on Maschine, another on keys/push unfortunately, that leaves very little room for tweaking

funny you should say that I'm practicing scales on Push with one hand and the other down my sweaty pants

[deva]

Man. This instrument argument is flat out ignorant.

Maschine can play chords and/or leads perfectly fine on its own. Although you probably would be better off playing one Or the other.

Actually, no it cannot. Lots of musical pieces require more than 1 octave plus a couple notes to play. There are very few orchestral instruments whose range is covered by 16 notes.

Maschine is not designed to be an expressive instrumental controller. It also has no modwheel or ribbon control which is something basic included on any controller intended for that purpose. It is the argument that Maschine is somehow suited for every purpose which is ignorant or perhaps driven by a false pride unwilling to admit it is not suited for everyone. The zealots pushing Maschine are like blind followers of some religious cult... Maschine is perfect for everyone!! All hail the omnipotent Maschine!! There is not one use for which it is not better than everything else!!