Consciousness

[scott nathaniel]

I have to say I think that the singularity the AI people talk about is so remote it may not happen before we bomb the planet back to the dark ages.

It seems to be based on what we think the computational power of the human brain is (while disregarding any quantum computational power it might have) , when a computer(s) reach that level it'll suddenly go 'Hello Dave'. IMO a huge underestimation of what consciousness is.

I think it's a symptom of the over confidence of modern science and it's our age looking to the future and seeing moon bases and jet packs just like we did thirty - forty years ago.

It's also a symptom (IMO) of the fear of death, as the next step would be uploading your consciousness to a capable computer as a way to live forever. Providing you could experience embodiment inside the ultimate Facebook profile (Which I sincerely doubt).

It would be cool if I (and many others more informed then me) was wrong, I love Sci-Fi (So sad about Ian M Banks)

I actually agree, but it is the logical conclusion of the materialist perspective which a lot of people subscribe to - if our brains are just glorified machines then we have to consider what it means when we can make machines as complex. The EU has just given a guy a Billion Euros to make one: http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg2 ... brain.html

it's something I'm reading about quite a bit at the moment. I've just started reading Ray Kurzweil's "How to make a Brain" and he does make some interesting points. I just find it really hard to accept that we will ever be able to completely duplicate a human brain complete with the conscious experience we have. I tend to think there is another element to it that we can't currently measure. But this field of reasearch is what leads to it, and there's a lot of clever people who really believe we will be able to upload our minds to a computer within the next 50 years. Kurzweil expects the Singularity by 2029. Others, like David Chalmers think it's still 100 years off if it all.

But however we look at it, it will be one of the big questions of this century.

Really! A hundred years. I'd say more like 87.9, given my data.

[Machinesworking]

Wtf? no Cream Pie?

I got yer cream pie right here! waiting...

[H20nly]

^

I just find it really hard to accept that we will ever be able to completely duplicate a human brain complete with the conscious experience we have. I tend to think there is another element to it that we can't currently measure.

agreed.

how would we be able to confirm, or deny, that AI is experiencing anything as we do? i have no idea how/what you experience in the exact same moment, on the exact same dose of mushrooms. if this is something we can't quite share as humans how would AI be able to be any different... other than being different.

uh oh. another circle. this topic is round.

not unlike a pie chart

[knotkranky]

^

I just find it really hard to accept that we will ever be able to completely duplicate a human brain complete with the conscious experience we have. I tend to think there is another element to it that we can't currently measure.

agreed.

how would we be able to confirm, or deny, that AI is experiencing anything as we do? i have no idea how/what you experience in the exact same moment, on the exact same dose of mushrooms. if this is something we can't quite share as humans how would AI be able to be any different... other than being different.

uh oh. another circle. this topic is round.

not unlike a pie chart

A brain ain't nothin without a penis. How's this 'brain in a box' gonna know anything if it's never fucked or had a decent jack?

[H20nly]

holla!

it's all about da booty!

[Forge.]

A brain ain't nothin without a penis. How's this 'brain in a box' gonna know anything if it's never fucked or had a decent jack?

well yeah you'd have to think if they're going to do it right they'd need to include the entire mix of hormones, testosterone included.

Maybe it will just hook itself up to the internet and look at porn all day.

[masterblasterofdisaster]

Watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFjY1fAcESs

"Brain, bodily awareness, and the emergence of a conscious self: these entities and their relations are explored by Germanphilosopher and cognitive scientist Metzinger. Extensively working with neuroscientists he has come to the conclusion that, in fact, there is no such thing as a "self" -- that a "self" is simply the content of a model created by our brain - part of a virtual reality we create for ourselves.

[knotkranky]

Wtf? no Cream Pie?

I got yer cream pie right here! waiting...

I bet it's nothing but crust by now. <rimshot cymbal>

[Machinesworking]

I bet it's nothing but crust by now. <rimshot cymbal>

Right on the tongue baby!

[H20nly]

get a room...

... inside your conciousness.

[ikeaboy]

Watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFjY1fAcESs

"Brain, bodily awareness, and the emergence of a conscious self: these entities and their relations are explored by Germanphilosopher and cognitive scientist Metzinger. Extensively working with neuroscientists he has come to the conclusion that, in fact, there is no such thing as a "self" -- that a "self" is simply the content of a model created by our brain - part of a virtual reality we create for ourselves.

A zen practitioner would agree, there is no authentic self, no observer but there is observation, awareness, consciousness.
I like this guy http://www.jacobneedleman.com/storage/p ... 20Body.pdf

I'm definitely watching that video later after work.

[ikeaboy]

I actually agree, but it is the logical conclusion of the materialist perspective which a lot of people subscribe to - if our brains are just glorified machines then we have to consider what it means when we can make machines as complex. The EU has just given a guy a Billion Euros to make one: http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg2 ... brain.html

it's something I'm reading about quite a bit at the moment. I've just started reading Ray Kurzweil's "How to make a Brain" and he does make some interesting points. I just find it really hard to accept that we will ever be able to completely duplicate a human brain complete with the conscious experience we have. I tend to think there is another element to it that we can't currently measure. But this field of reasearch is what leads to it, and there's a lot of clever people who really believe we will be able to upload our minds to a computer within the next 50 years. Kurzweil expects the Singularity by 2029. Others, like David Chalmers think it's still 100 years off if it all.

But however we look at it, it will be one of the big questions of this century.

"CERN for the brain" well, even if it doesn't become self aware they are bound to discover something interesting even if it just shows them how far away the goal posts really are. The idea they need to give it hormones and it goes rogue and digests porn all day, that should be a short film or something.

[crumhorn]

there is no such thing as a "self" -- that a "self" is simply the content of a model created by our brain - part of a virtual reality we create for ourselves.

Can you see what's wrong with that sentence?

[Forge.]

The idea they need to give it hormones and it goes rogue and digests porn all day, that should be a short film or something.

ha ha yes! I will write it right now.

[masterblasterofdisaster]

there is no such thing as a "self" -- that a "self" is simply the content of a model created by our brain - part of a virtual reality we create for ourselves.

Can you see what's wrong with that sentence?

I can see what's confusing about it.
Try not to worry about the shortcomings of my cut and paste -- just watch the video.

Here's his book on the topic:
http://www.amazon.com/Ego-Tunnel-Scienc ... 0465020690