Push not as sensitive as it was in 9.0.1

SuburbanThug · Post by **SuburbanThug** » Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:15 pm

I've been using the demo of Suite 9 and posted this video showing how sensitive my Push is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEa2MXHBkB0. It's come to my attention that updates to 9 have greatly reduced the sensitivity of the machine. As it stands my Push is very playable but I'm concerned that if it is not this sensitive upon update it will not be worth the money I've paid for it.

I'd really appreciate responses comparing their Push to the one in the video including what version you are using (9.0.2, Standard, Suite, Intro?) This is a bit of a pain in the ass as my window for returning Push will end at about the time I'll find out that it's not worth keeping. Your responses are greatly appreciated!

panten · Post by **panten** » Mon Apr 22, 2013 12:37 pm

Hey SuburbanThug, I have Live 9 Suite and can report that my Push pads ARE as sensitive and responsive as shown in your vid.

What I have noticed however is that it also depends heavily on the settings of each instrument as for the majority of them you can set the Velocity sensitivity. 100% Vel will mean that you will have to hit harder on the pads to achieve 100% velocity. Setting it lower will give you less nuance but mean that you can do runs with one finger and get a louder sound.

I think it's highly subjective as to the perfect settings so it will take some experimentation. I believe that there was a change to the default Velocity settings at some point so this may account for the differences between the Demo and the fully paid version.

Evengy · Post by **Evengy** » Mon Apr 22, 2013 12:49 pm

the pads are more sensitive in 9.0.1 than in 9.0.2
i thought they described it in the changelog but it´s only for session mode. after the update i noticed it directly.

•When holding the User mode button, you can now set the global pad sensitivity and velocity curve independently.

panten · Post by **panten** » Mon Apr 22, 2013 12:59 pm

I'm sure at some point during the beta they changed >THIS< default velocity sensitivity. Is it possible that this is the cause of some of the differences also?

SuburbanThug · Post by **SuburbanThug** » Mon Apr 22, 2013 4:32 pm

panten wrote:Hey SuburbanThug, I have Live 9 Suite and can report that my Push pads ARE as sensitive and responsive as shown in your vid.

What I have noticed however is that it also depends heavily on the settings of each instrument as for the majority of them you can set the Velocity sensitivity. 100% Vel will mean that you will have to hit harder on the pads to achieve 100% velocity. Setting it lower will give you less nuance but mean that you can do runs with one finger and get a louder sound.

I think it's highly subjective as to the perfect settings so it will take some experimentation. I believe that there was a change to the default Velocity settings at some point so this may account for the differences between the Demo and the fully paid version.

You're a pretty frequently seen name on here so I kind of trust your judgement on this. Are you using version 9.0.2 or a later beta?

Stray said on the Beatwise forum that he may consider looking into this. I have a feeling that if more people end up with a not-so-sensitive Push this might become more of a priority. Hopefully Ableton themselves can fix it (if indeed it's not just user errors that are being reported) before any of us folks have to take to tinkering with it.

Thanks for weighing in guys!

panten · Post by **panten** » Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:22 pm

Apologies for not responding sooner I wanted to make sure I had all the data at my fingertips.

First off, I received my Push after installing 9.0.2 so I never actually used it with version 9.0.1 so I have no frame of reference as far as your question sorry.

It gets me thinking, how can we test this more scientifically rather than how each individual will 'feel' perceive the sensitivity of the pads. Which is a difficult thing as there are a multitude of playing methods. Striking tests, subtle Pianoesque pressing, finger runs etc.

I tried holding my middle finger at varying distances(up to an inch) and dropping them naturally (hammer action) down on the pads and watched the velocity info in M4L.

Struck 10 times at approx. 1 inch. Ableton Live Beta (9.0.3b5)
@ Log 5 - Vel. 127(10)
@ Log 4 - Vel. 127(10)
@ Log 3 - Vel. 127(5) 126(1) 125(1) 124(2) 122(1)
@ Log 2 - Vel. 127(2) 124(1) 122(2) 120(1) 119(2) 111(1) 109(1)
@ Log 1 - Vel. 120(3) 118(1) 113(1) 112(2) 109(2) 107(1)

I tried as much as possible to be consistent with height and letting my hand drop without letting the finger stray once landed (like gymnastics vaulting only less impressive)

I have NO idea if this is helping or not but I can't think of any other way to try and determine actual quantifiable data for this sort of thing. I'm sure things like arm length + mass come into play but.... I have to hit the hay man I'm tired.

Evengy · Post by **Evengy** » Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:58 am

panten wrote:Apologies for not responding sooner I wanted to make sure I had all the data at my fingertips.

First off, I received my Push after installing 9.0.2 so I never actually used it with version 9.0.1 so I have no frame of reference as far as your question sorry.

It gets me thinking, how can we test this more scientifically rather than how each individual will 'feel' perceive the sensitivity of the pads. Which is a difficult thing as there are a multitude of playing methods. Striking tests, subtle Pianoesque pressing, finger runs etc.

I tried holding my middle finger at varying distances(up to an inch) and dropping them naturally (hammer action) down on the pads and watched the velocity info in M4L.

Struck 10 times at approx. 1 inch. Ableton Live Beta (9.0.3b5)
@ Log 5 - Vel. 127(10)
@ Log 4 - Vel. 127(10)
@ Log 3 - Vel. 127(5) 126(1) 125(1) 124(2) 122(1)
@ Log 2 - Vel. 127(2) 124(1) 122(2) 120(1) 119(2) 111(1) 109(1)
@ Log 1 - Vel. 120(3) 118(1) 113(1) 112(2) 109(2) 107(1)

I tried as much as possible to be consistent with height and letting my hand drop without letting the finger stray once landed (like gymnastics vaulting only less impressive)

I have NO idea if this is helping or not but I can't think of any other way to try and determine actual quantifiable data for this sort of thing. I'm sure things like arm length + mass come into play but.... I have to hit the hay man I'm tired.

for the sensitivity it´s necessary to adjust the pad threshold. log1 - log5 are the velocity curves so it doesn´t do anything with the sensitivity. i tried threshold -3 to -5 and it´s really nice

panten · Post by **panten** » Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:07 am

My mistake. I presumed that people were having problems with velocity sensitivity as the actual 'sensitivity' setting has been nothing but perfect for me. Velocity on the other hand has seemed to vary and I was puzzled until it triggered in my mind that each instrument can have different velocity/volume settings that would affect how the pads 'feel'.

If I lower THAT setting to the same as yours it feels great. I did this on day one with v9.0.2 and have been using it that way since.
When it hits around -19/20 some of the pads start to flicker. It's the same for both Drum Racks & Instruments and been this way since I got it.

SuburbanThug · Post by **SuburbanThug** » Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:40 pm

Thanks for the responses, guys. My confidence in this machine starting to return a bit.

Asymmetricalmusic · Post by **Asymmetricalmusic** » Wed Apr 24, 2013 12:14 am

Suburb how many more days till you give 9.0.2 a try?

i really am curious to see if there is a difference in your next video

a before and after (if you will)

That would really help me decide if mine is bad or ok......

SuburbanThug · Post by **SuburbanThug** » Wed Apr 24, 2013 12:24 am

10 days. Good idea!

djcyph · Post by **djcyph** » Wed Apr 24, 2013 2:00 am

guys i just got my replacement push (original had bad led) and before i even messed with sensitivity, it felt better.

with my first Push i was a little upset with playability/sensitivity like alot of people....just want to point out that i didnt really mess with sensitivity or anything when I first got Push because with the bad LED I knew I was getting a new one anyway.

first thing i did with the new unit is go all the way down on the sensitivity until the pads "stuck" without touching and then backed off until that stop...played and they would stick so backed off and I ended up at -16 and WOW is that sensitive, in an awesome way like the video, even more sensitive...dont think im going to stick with this setting, as could be too sensitive, i think im going to experiment at -10 for a while see how that goes.

SuburbanThug · Post by **SuburbanThug** » Wed Apr 24, 2013 2:51 am

Nice! Now I'm starting to look forward to updating... Thanks for your input DJ Clyph.

lyovino · Post by **lyovino** » Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:18 am

djcyph wrote: first thing i did with the new unit is go all the way down on the sensitivity until the pads "stuck" without touching and then backed off until that stop...played and they would stick so backed off and I ended up at -16 and WOW is that sensitive, in an awesome way like the video, even more sensitive...dont think im going to stick with this setting, as could be too sensitive, i think im going to experiment at -10 for a while see how that goes.

Yes 15-16 is very sensitive. I'm kind of settling in on 12.
Leaving it at the default gave me finger fatigue ..

Push not as sensitive as it was in 9.0.1

Push not as sensitive as it was in 9.0.1

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