Why I will not make music with something like "push"

[panten]

It wasn't my intent to cause such huge offense with my comment. I merely found humour in the dichotomy between the description of your preferred mouse heavy workflow and the declaration of owning the APC and soon, Maschine AND Push. The Irony was not lost on me.

I was also under the impression that there were a number of improvements to aid with a mouse driven workflow. Improved MIDI editing to name one.

It seems to me, on these boards, that a lot of the Push resentment is based on individuals trying to convince themselves that they don't NEED it and their workflow is just fine.

Personally, I have done a lot of music creation with the mouse in the past. I currently own Push and have not had as much enjoyment making music in a long time... or am I trying to convince myself that forking out almost a grand was worth it?

[Sional]

You certainly did not cause "huge offense" and I am pleased that you recognised the intentional irony of my original post. I agree that using midi controllers can be great fun; however it can prove difficult to incorporate their use into complex music composition (i.e. numerous tracks, scenes, instruments and FX etc). Live playing is a different matter altogether and I have seen midi controllers used to great effect in this field. I mainly use midi (as opposed to audio) for my compositions and I have not recognised any improved midi editing in Live 9. I don't resent Push and welcome all forms of Midi controllers but I do believe that Push has deflected close scrutiny of the value of the 8 to 9 update. Obviously the Suite update was attractive due to the inclusion of M4L and the extra content, which was more beneficial to owners of the download version of Suite 8 like myself.

[panten]

I have not recognised any improved midi editing in Live 9

So you've not taken a look at 'Help > Help View > What's New in Ableton Live 9? > MIDI Editing Improvements'? I think there are some pretty nice touches in there that definitely improve on Live8. The MIDI stretch markers alone are pretty significant in my eyes.

I have never been one to use straight audio tracks but my workflow at the moment has become;

Sampling sounds >> Creating Instruments >> Playing those instruments with Push >> Recording those loops back to an old 4-track via microphone to let it 'breathe' >> Sampling those loops back into Live (using Push to Arm and record into new clips) >> Jamming and cutting those loops in Session view and recording everything live to the Arrangement view >> THEN going crazy with the mouse & keyboard.

As I said I'm having a ton of fun and it's down to Push being the tactile interactive surface bridging that gap between Analogue(me) & Digital(Live). The more I use it the more muscle memory is kicking in and becoming 2nd nature to use.

THAT is why I WILL make music with something like "push".

peace.

[Sional]

Yeah sounds good. Recently, I have also thought of recording my audio, playing with it somehow and then returning it to Live. I read somewhere that gains could be made in attack transients etc.
I am aware of the Midi Editing "Improvements" in Live 9, unfortunately one man's gain is another man's loss. I miss Orig BPM and I don't like the new quasi grid on/off feature (I want it to be either fully on or fully off). I definitely don't appreciate the midi invert and reverse buttons (random midi clip generation). For all instruments I record my playing into Live and midi editing is basically quantising, duplicating, octave shifting and some individual note moving. I create some parts of the rhythm via step recording and other parts I play in and edit much as I would for an instrument part. As they say horses for courses and I am well aware that what I don't like some one else will love and what I miss has gone unnoticed by many

[lo.key]

yeah, sional, i didnt get much of an ironic feel to your initial comment, sorry.

to say that live 9 hasnt improved midi editing, well i just dont know what to say. Its a huge improvement. The ability to double midi loops effortlessly is such an improvement to workflow, im amazed you dont see it as such. To say nothing of clip automation recording. It means that so much more can be done in the midi world, before bouncing to audio. Its a real improvement.

[SuburbanThug]

yeah, sional, i didnt get much of an ironic feel to your initial comment, sorry.

to say that live 9 hasnt improved midi editing, well i just dont know what to say. Its a huge improvement. The ability to double midi loops effortlessly is such an improvement to workflow, im amazed you dont see it as such. To say nothing of clip automation recording. It means that so much more can be done in the midi world, before bouncing to audio. Its a real improvement.

Hell, yeah. The midi editing is way improved. I'm just happy you can invert the stuff and flip it backwards and whatnot.

[Sional]

Yes I agree that clip automation is nice, though I prefer to use envelopes for automation (not new to 9) so that I can precisely define the endpoint (I always overshoot when doing it by hand). More often I tend to use the step modulators in my hard and soft synths for tonal modulation. As I said in my previous post I sorely miss the Orig BPM feature and, for my workflow, the new midi editing features do not make up for this loss (mainly because I have not found a use for the better ones and am not amused by the lesser ones which I mentioned previously). I also think that many of the new features would have just been given as a free upgrade by other companies (even German ones ) .

[erikomic]

Anyway the original poster is a Jurk... because.

Because PUSH IS FUCKING AWESOME DUDE.
And no one should judge before trying... Ahaha.

But I don't need it.

[greaterthanzero]

Now, now. I'm sure he's a nice guy.

We're all a little resistant to change in our own way. We all get defensive about the investments we've made and the investments asked of us.

Let's just try not to let the things we have to tell ourselves impede growth and learning.

[sporkles]

But I don't need it.

Wow. I'm glad you realised that it all boils down to this. Completely unnecessary thread.

[agent314]

Completely unnecessary thread.

And that's different from 3/4 of the threads on this board because why exactly?

And re: the MIDI improvements, I agree there are definitely things that make the workflow better, and I am certainly happy with what they've changed. But really, I'd have a hard time disagreeing with someone saying that there hasn't been much significant improvement to the MIDI editor to speak of, in a long time.

midi editing is basically quantising, duplicating, octave shifting and some individual note moving

Did you know Shift+up arrow and Shift+down arrow will move a selection up an entire octave? And that you can use the arrow keys to move notes around rather than dragging?

I learned that a few weeks ago after having used Live for almost 4 years, and it has been suuuch an improvement. Specifically the Shift+up/down for octaves.

[erikomic]

Now, now. I'm sure he's a nice guy.

ahahah.
I can tell you he's not. I am the original poster...

[SuburbanThug]

Ahhh. So this thread boils down to "I will not make music with something like Push because I don't need it. I am perfectly content with drawing in my notes using my mouse/trackpad." What a lot of confusion your initial post created.

[erikomic]

Yeah right I carve notes in stone with a sliex and it still sound better than you'll ever know.

[SuburbanThug]

Yeah right I carve notes in stone with a sliex and it still sound better than you'll ever know.

lol, wut?