Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE : this time it's enough !

[androids]

My previous thread here : viewtopic.php?f=1&t=190475
started to proove that everyone with a LARGE sample collection should be aware that the live 9 browser is a real pain in the ass in term of slow indexing, even on fast i7 machines and USB 3 disks.

Fine.

Now there is another terrible hidden treasure ....

As far as my sample collection is big (2.5 To) and resides on a Seagate 4To external drive (USB3), I bought a spare one to have a mirror of it in case of serious HDD crash.
It took me 16 hours to mirror it, but now I have a safe backup. Fine.

The problem is ...

If I use my spare backup with Ableton 9 (fresh mirrored, with exact same structure, file and folders), Ableton indexer consider it as a new disk which need to be indexed again ...


Bam ... 12 hours of indexation to perform again on my 4 machines ...


ABLETON : you need to fix this f**king indexer crap out of live 9.

NO WAY I will use 9 as long as and option to disable index and browse the normal, or say "OS" way, like in v8.

[artpunk]

I do understand your ongoing frustration (& thank the fates I have not yet accumulated as large a sample collection as you) ...but wouldn't any computer, as well as the software running on it see a new drive, as a new drive? - ie a different piece of hardware to the other drive with your original data on it? It is not the same drive therefore it will be assumed to be a different drive, because it IS a different drive and the software will then index it. Unfortunately, the data is mirrored, but the physical hardware containing it is not. I could be wrong, and would be happy to be proved so, but AFAIK this would be true for almost any search engine/data base solution needing to find information on a 'new' drive, not just a problem limited to Live 9’s browser.

[102455]

I can see the point that androids makes.

If the backup drive has the same files, in the same places, and is connected as the same driver letter via the OS, then as far as the software should be concerned it's the same drive. The database file should store the drive letter and file locations, not the actual physical spec of the drive, brand etc. - that shouldn't be relevant.

One DJ s/w that I use stores its main DB locally, but if you use an external drive then it also stores a DB (with a slightly different name) on the external drive.

If for example androids were to carry out the same scenario using that s/w, all he'd need to do would be to copy the external DB file to the backup drive.

[androids]

artpunk, you're right, another drive IS another drive.

but 102455 is even more right, it THAT case, it should be seen by Live as the same drive.

Live 8 is browsing my spare drive as the original one, as far as it has the same allocation letter in the OS.



Seems that if you mirror your boot HDD and have a crash, you need to perform a full indexing when booting on your exact mirror copy, that's pretty sucks.

[darkenedsoul]

It could be putting a file onto the drive(s) like SyncToy does for fast syncing so it doesn't have to go and read everything on the drive/mount point/directory when doing a backup. I use SyncToy between my WHS Server and a NAS box to backup my movies and mp3 files. If he didn't unplug original drive and then plug in the backup of it I can see why it indexed it. And again, if it is leaving a metadata xml file on the drive that's probably why it did it again since it was not found. That's all I got. And I've been around storage for a long long time (DEC Enterprise RAID arrays, portable 4 shelf RAID Arrays, etc...).

From what I've seen posted elsewhere they aren't going to be taking Indexing out. They are supposedly working on resolving the issues in regards to performance of it.

Mike

[androids]

Yes but in my case a small single HDD unit is more portable than a Nas Box, so I prefer a weekly night mirroring as a backup instead of realtime syncing ...

Sure it seems that Ableton are not going to change their mind about the 9 indexer.

But I still have hope that they will maybe implement TWO "Places", one indexed, one with OS-like browsing, and give to CHOICE back the the USERS.

[Blendton]

androids issues are no matter what you think, perfectly and deserved in some way :

sorry this sounds rude but IMO, if you were "good" so "reliable" enough, even in a dream you NEVER would have thought about take your huge pile of crap and com^plaint about Live which after all is like everything but crap-eaters (not a lot logically).

TYou don't you won't you can't be able to use this 2,5terastuff you have.

Any pro or not pro, just the basic and lambra user is wise enough to never think about putting that whole thing into Live.

If you weren't just maybe geniously talented (in musical thins I precise) but terribly sucking smurfs dicks while boring us with your lack of good sense and fair thinking way to approach an issue, you would not in theory take this post as insulting or any negativ e feelings from me.

Be smart.

Be efficient.

Optimize your workplace.

And PLEASE work on that huge bank, in order to only ask Live to index what's your mandatory stuff, and when you'll rfind in that collection some good sounds, bebause human lifespan being too short, you can't know and have listened all this stuff, THEN you willl be able to think about adding another "so called Live user folder" (after having well thought and prepared the thing for optimizing it to the max) >>> I put "" because indexing is a bless. Any issues come from serious alpha stage releases or quickly "idiot" little bug like the endless loop after a crash fore some quickly found reason.

All other issues are bevause of your incompetence in computing technology.

And if you see me as some sucker, please, go to your OS Indexer config and add all your volumes in it,

... and when ou'll be available again after having restored some OS stuff because the crash you were trying to induce, then you'll understand that I'm not answering to be provoking or joking, dude.

Just be conscious that the above is from someone knowing for f***ucking years the object, subject, issues and all "how-to" stuff about indexing in computing, so no way to escape from go ing to figure it uoput by yourself alone until the technical basics I wrote above is not understood and have been by sense seen as being the same in Live's index "case" (if any, sinced every issue comes from quickly fixed early bugs for a few, every other is some "I put xxx GB placed in hundreds into a single folder for some contents" stories.

So I agree and emphathize, since you don't know or thought about optimizing and managing your index, if you know what it's meant to do for you, because I waited for that since my first Live's "small one to big one" migration with the soft being updated and my skills being evolving.

Before that, so many lost or corrupted stuff stories to tell (version 8 included) because it just made you able to browse without any stuff to manage that content so it's coined and filed by the soft, to be sure you won't or exceptionnaly only say some "WTF where is "..." (preset, sample or WTF).

No blame dude, Ableton is also guilty for not having documented indexing basics even now while I'm typing, for users who never had to work on and with it in computer oriented situations (no matter for study or to work as a pro).

If you're on Windows, try to rebuild your index from zero, after puting your Live's samples just to be sure I'm RIGHT and begin to be not laughing anymore on not music making related noob stuff.

[androids]

androids issues are no matter what you think, perfectly and deserved in some way :

sorry this sounds rude but IMO, if you were "good" so "reliable" enough, even in a dream you NEVER would have thought about take your huge pile of crap and com^plaint about Live which after all is like everything but crap-eaters (not a lot logically).

TYou don't you won't you can't be able to use this 2,5terastuff you have.

Any pro or not pro, just the basic and lambra user is wise enough to never think about putting that whole thing into Live.

If you weren't just maybe geniously talented (in musical thins I precise) but terribly sucking smurfs dicks while boring us with your lack of good sense and fair thinking way to approach an issue, you would not in theory take this post as insulting or any negativ e feelings from me.

Be smart.

Be efficient.

Optimize your workplace.

And PLEASE work on that huge bank, in order to only ask Live to index what's your mandatory stuff, and when you'll rfind in that collection some good sounds, bebause human lifespan being too short, you can't know and have listened all this stuff, THEN you willl be able to think about adding another "so called Live user folder" (after having well thought and prepared the thing for optimizing it to the max) >>> I put "" because indexing is a bless. Any issues come from serious alpha stage releases or quickly "idiot" little bug like the endless loop after a crash fore some quickly found reason.

All other issues are bevause of your incompetence in computing technology.

And if you see me as some sucker, please, go to your OS Indexer config and add all your volumes in it,

... and when ou'll be available again after having restored some OS stuff because the crash you were trying to induce, then you'll understand that I'm not answering to be provoking or joking, dude.

Just be conscious that the above is from someone knowing for f***ucking years the object, subject, issues and all "how-to" stuff about indexing in computing, so no way to escape from go ing to figure it uoput by yourself alone until the technical basics I wrote above is not understood and have been by sense seen as being the same in Live's index "case" (if any, sinced every issue comes from quickly fixed early bugs for a few, every other is some "I put xxx GB placed in hundreds into a single folder for some contents" stories.

So I agree and emphathize, since you don't know or thought about optimizing and managing your index, if you know what it's meant to do for you, because I waited for that since my first Live's "small one to big one" migration with the soft being updated and my skills being evolving.

Before that, so many lost or corrupted stuff stories to tell (version 8 included) because it just made you able to browse without any stuff to manage that content so it's coined and filed by the soft, to be sure you won't or exceptionnaly only say some "WTF where is "..." (preset, sample or WTF).

No blame dude, Ableton is also guilty for not having documented indexing basics even now while I'm typing, for users who never had to work on and with it in computer oriented situations (no matter for study or to work as a pro).

If you're on Windows, try to rebuild your index from zero, after puting your Live's samples just to be sure I'm RIGHT and begin to be not laughing anymore on not music making related noob stuff.

Hey you seems to be a very smart and cool boy right ?
Do you know me ?
Do you know what I produce and how I work ?
Who are you to tell me what I need to do ?

please shut up.


Is it insulting to tell how bad a new 'feature' behave comparing to the previous version of the software ?
my lib has never been a problem before, with every DAW I use.

If Ableton are deaf to my demand, then fine. I will stay with 8 or switch to concurrent solution.

[darkenedsoul]

Yes but in my case a small single HDD unit is more portable than a Nas Box, so I prefer a weekly night mirroring as a backup instead of realtime syncing ...

Sure it seems that Ableton are not going to change their mind about the 9 indexer.

But I still have hope that they will maybe implement TWO "Places", one indexed, one with OS-like browsing, and give to CHOICE back the the USERS.

Well for making a clone of it you have a bunch of freebie stuff out there. I personally use Paragon Software 2012 Free for doing image backups of my main system (and it gets backed up to WHS nightly as well). My DAW I have an external drive I use Paragon to image the boot disk to as well when I think of it (It needs one due to recent changes to the system anyways). SyncToy is nice as it only updates what changed on one drive to the other. So it's much quicker IMHO for what you are doing. Just a thought.

Mike

[androids]

Yes but in my case a small single HDD unit is more portable than a Nas Box, so I prefer a weekly night mirroring as a backup instead of realtime syncing ...

Sure it seems that Ableton are not going to change their mind about the 9 indexer.

But I still have hope that they will maybe implement TWO "Places", one indexed, one with OS-like browsing, and give to CHOICE back the the USERS.

Well for making a clone of it you have a bunch of freebie stuff out there. I personally use Paragon Software 2012 Free for doing image backups of my main system (and it gets backed up to WHS nightly as well). My DAW I have an external drive I use Paragon to image the boot disk to as well when I think of it (It needs one due to recent changes to the system anyways). SyncToy is nice as it only updates what changed on one drive to the other. So it's much quicker IMHO for what you are doing. Just a thought.

Mike

I agree that first operation is easier with a clone tool, then smartsyncing is quicker (freefilesync or superflexible). But this is not my problem.
The problem is that a mirror backup isnt recognized as the same as the original by Live 9 ...

[darkenedsoul]

It could be something with the hardware ID or something along those lines....maybe. I don't know what else to tell you. I agree with you to a point though, they a) need to fix indexer and b) ensure it doesn't get broken down the road and c) make it robust for performance and maybe d) have an option to turn it off and use the filesystem/OS as before (highly unlikely still...).

I don't have that many samples unless you count all the Battery kits/library stuff from Komplete I have on my 2nd drive (of 3). But I am not pointing to that folder structure, same disk but top level folder called Loops.

Mike

[ark]

Here's what may be a foolish question: How do you use your backup library? In the following, I'm going to assume you're on Windows, though maybe MacOS has similar facilieits.

Do you mount your library as a drive letter, and then dismount it and mount the backup with the same drive letter?

If the answer to this question is no, then I suggest trying it. If the answer is yes, then there's one other workaround you might try: Use this free program to create a "junction link" to your library. Then, when you want to use the backup, remove the junction link and replace it by one to your backup.

In both cases, the idea is the same: To be able to trick Live's indexer into thinking that your files all have exactly the same names regardless of which copy you're using.

[mholloway]

It's not really Ableton's fault that you insist on using a 2.5 terabyte sample library and want regular access to a backed up version of said 2.5. terabyte library.

It's nice to think a program would accomodate every extreme case without a glitch, but also pretty damned unlikely.

I'd say cool your rage and either 1. switch DAWs to something with a browser that suits your very particular needs, or 2. think about downsizing / re-organizing your approach to sample library use in your DAW.

[SuburbanThug]

I somewhat agree with the opposing faction here only because it's somewhat well known that Ableton is not studio-ready at this point. It's still very much geared towards the individual. If you need all these samples for studio use it would be well within your interest at this point to concentrate on using a DAW that is studio-ready such as ProTools or Logic. If these samples are for personal use, I have to agree with Blendton's post. Streamlining your workflow or using a separate program for auditioning will solve a lot of your headaches at this point. So you can get to work rather than spending your time dealing with Live's shortcomings.

[mholloway]

"Studio Ready" lol.

what all-knowing manual defines that genius term, I wonder.