Top 5 things I will regret after going from Live8 to Live9

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
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yur2die4
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Re: Top 5 things I will regret after going from Live8 to Live9

Post by yur2die4 » Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:42 pm

It is amusing seeing the "no one uses tagging anyway" comment.

Brings me back to the pre-Vocoder days :P.

http://youtu.be/KOTZk0fD6Qs

Nokatus
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Re: Top 5 things I will regret after going from Live8 to Live9

Post by Nokatus » Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:03 pm

fimpson wrote:This is why everyone is complaining about the browser! - seems like most of you guys save samples all over the place in your computers instead of organising in a dedicated samples folder.
No, this is completely backwards. For example, I have something like twelve years worth of audio material on my main workstation alone, from various music and sound design projects. It's what I do, and the shit's organized. I have it all in a directory tree I'm familiar with. That's kind of the point of having a file system capable of creating directories/folders.

The whole point is, we know where to find our stuff, and if we forget, we'll use something else than an unoptimized POS Ableton Live indexer to find it. People reporting hours of indexing before seeing their libraries, oh man. The fact that serious users can't use their own directory structure and large personal material libraries directly from the browser without going through a lengthy indexing process is one (but not the only one) of the main issues people are complaining about this.

Also, if you're in the middle of a job which includes bringing in material on a removable drive or a field recorder, why on earth am I forced to index all of that before seeing it in the browser? Even if it's someone else's drive and I'd just like to navigate into it and preview stuff in the context of the rest of the project?

My main disappointment with Live 9 is how much important stuff _hasn't_ been done, though. Doing the browser thing was the last straw to make me see how different Ableton's view of its user base is than, well, me, and it made me reconsider my position in all this.

simpli.cissimus
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Re: Top 5 things I will regret after going from Live8 to Live9

Post by simpli.cissimus » Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:25 pm

I don't know why you can't accept that Ableton isn't anymore interested supporting pro's
and the more advanced users. Those are bad customers and not much money to make from.

1.7 Million users of Ableton and at least 95% are amateurs and beginners.

Those are the customers who need ready made sound libraries ordered by Ableton,
who have to use a browser the way they made it.
The browser is made to support certified developers and Push.
It's a effective money making decision.
Simple as that !

Ableton plays with the big guys in the business and have over a Million users.
Those few pro's and their sounds on hard disks are not important anymore.

But you're free to think different...
No! I'll never use the Push-App Live 9 !!!

Nokatus
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Re: Top 5 things I will regret after going from Live8 to Live9

Post by Nokatus » Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:38 pm

simpli.cissimus wrote:I don't know why you can't accept that Ableton isn't anymore interested supporting pro's
and the more advanced users. Those are bad customers and not much money to make from.
Well for one thing, Ableton Live is THE solution for live performance, and a lot of people who are playing live are so called more serious users. Second, I really do think it makes sense to include the pros in your user base as well, no matter how well your product is doing ;). Implying that these things are naturally mutually exclusive is absurd.

In any case, I'm not really interested in any 3phase crap, you've had a personal beef with Ableton for something like a decade now. You aren't interested in constructive criticism even if you sometimes make it seem like you are, you're just wishing to see Live do badly. I'm not a blind follower and can critique it pretty harshly when there is actual need to do so, and here too with an undertone of "hey seriously, improve this, you've still got a gem in your hands." You've just been here to kick up a stink for years.

knotkranky
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Re: Top 5 things I will regret after going from Live8 to Live9

Post by knotkranky » Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:46 pm

Nokatus wrote:
simpli.cissimus wrote:I don't know why you can't accept that Ableton isn't anymore interested supporting pro's
and the more advanced users. Those are bad customers and not much money to make from.
Well for one thing, Ableton Live is THE solution for live performance, and a lot of people who are playing live are so called more serious users. Second, I really do think it makes sense to include the pros in your user base as well, no matter how well your product is doing ;). Implying that these things are naturally mutually exclusive is absurd.

In any case, I'm not really interested in any 3phase crap, you've had a personal beef with Ableton for something like a decade now. You aren't interested in constructive criticism even if you sometimes make it seem like you are, you're just wishing to see Live do badly. I'm not a blind follower and can critique it pretty harshly when there is actual need to do so, and here too with an undertone of "hey seriously, improve this, you've still got a gem in your hands." You've just been here to kick up a stink for years.
no no no, that bs, his complaints over the years are legit. "Just get over it" is no retort to all that work he's put in "helping" to improve Live. You're flat wrong and have little understanding. Glad you're satisfied. Now out of the way please.

Ableton is not the face you see. They are investors, bankers and marketers that have last say after shit is designed. They changed the browser, not Henke.

get a clue.

Tone Deft
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Re: Top 5 things I will regret after going from Live8 to Live9

Post by Tone Deft » Wed Jun 19, 2013 1:46 am

knotkranky wrote:They are investors, bankers and marketers that have last say after shit is designed. They changed the browser, not Henke.
it's marketing that would make the form/fit decisions. blame them for pushing content onto users and changing the browser. blame the slow performance on engineering. investors and bankers? that's tinfoil hat stuff.
oddstep wrote:I agree with all of this. I'm just bored of writing "its music, just listen and trust your judgement"

knotkranky
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Re: Top 5 things I will regret after going from Live8 to Live9

Post by knotkranky » Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:10 am

Tone Deft wrote:
knotkranky wrote:They are investors, bankers and marketers that have last say after shit is designed. They changed the browser, not Henke.
it's marketing that would make the form/fit decisions. blame them for pushing content onto users and changing the browser. blame the slow performance on engineering. investors and bankers? that's tinfoil hat stuff.
Tone! cheers mate. Well, it's just another way of saying what drives the bottom line. There's not much distinction between what the marketers want to accomplish, and what investors want. I'm certain a lot of dedicated ableton programmers and designers are frustrated with the browser too. This is age old business stuff of course. Cats like us just want to run with this great program, but it simply isn't made for us like that. Meaning our hard earned sound pallets flowing with it. I've accepted abletons behavior some time ago.

Tone Deft
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Re: Top 5 things I will regret after going from Live8 to Live9

Post by Tone Deft » Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:32 am

hey hey KK!

Push makes me think twice, I could see people at the top of the food chain studying the competition and asking why they don't have proprietary hardware. that's more in their scope, I guess and probably shouldn't say.

glad I stayed out. these days a TC Electronics Ditto is my DAW.
oddstep wrote:I agree with all of this. I'm just bored of writing "its music, just listen and trust your judgement"

knotkranky
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Re: Top 5 things I will regret after going from Live8 to Live9

Post by knotkranky » Wed Jun 19, 2013 3:34 am

I'm with ya. I'm doubling down on Live because of push, so they've made a quality move for this bastard. Changes in the program had to be made to accomodate so I'm not mad at progress either. Somethings need to give. And I'm sure the math and extension in development investment/manufacturing is noteworthy. That's me being reasonable ) Hopefully they're just priming the pump for a minute or two and will loosen up the browser if/when it benefits them. They have a 5 year plan of course. I wish I could see it. My money/love is in one hand, and a stick in the other. All companies of size need lots and lots of stick.

I just bought a ditto 8)

Tone Deft
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Re: Top 5 things I will regret after going from Live8 to Live9

Post by Tone Deft » Wed Jun 19, 2013 3:57 am

lol the Ditto's been great. it plays whatever I tell it to for hours on end, it doesn't drink my beer or get too high to play. the simplicity delivers. it's fun to make something cool, stomp, and it's gone. NEXT!

cheers to reasonable. from a non-Live 9 owning forum whore's perspective I think the biggest sign that they're off in the weeds is that the usual post-release unreasonably angry (YMMV) forum rants against Live 9 are totally reasonable, calm, rational discussions on 9's faults. no hyperbole required. I guess they fcuked up the software and tamed the forum. ha!
oddstep wrote:I agree with all of this. I'm just bored of writing "its music, just listen and trust your judgement"

knotkranky
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Re: Top 5 things I will regret after going from Live8 to Live9

Post by knotkranky » Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:11 pm

It's tamed cuz Abes and the fanboys beat down the ballers. You, me and a bunch of fine users stretching live out and participating in its sideways evolution are simply tired. The changes ( i won't call them improvements other than Push ) are a boon for Abes. It is what it is. Fine, I get enough fun and music through the program regardless.

Live is still not a professional program for me. And ableton has proved time and again that they are a fanboy centric company that many professionals will use anyway. That sounds fine, but it's not a professional paradigm. If you put a VW beetle carburator on a Ferrari, it will accelerate like a VW beetle.


edit: plinkers was a harsh generalization. fixed^
Last edited by knotkranky on Wed Jun 19, 2013 5:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.

H20nly
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Re: Top 5 things I will regret after going from Live8 to Live9

Post by H20nly » Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:40 pm

:x it won't fit! i pick your analogy to pieces instead of seeing its simple truth! this is the Way of the Forum Warrior!

re:dream
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Re: Top 5 things I will regret after going from Live8 to Live9

Post by re:dream » Wed Jun 19, 2013 5:07 pm

plin k, plink, plink 8)

knotkranky
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Re: Top 5 things I will regret after going from Live8 to Live9

Post by knotkranky » Wed Jun 19, 2013 5:15 pm

fucking fanboys :P

knotkranky
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Re: Top 5 things I will regret after going from Live8 to Live9

Post by knotkranky » Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:22 pm

H20nly wrote::x it won't fit! i pick your analogy to pieces instead of seeing its simple truth! this is the Way of the Forum Warrior!
This would even be better 8)

Image


not this
Image

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