so many glitches in ableton 9

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frostedcoco
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat May 11, 2013 10:58 pm

Re: so many glitches in ableton 9

Post by frostedcoco » Thu May 16, 2013 10:51 pm

Hi mal

3. often if i drag and drop a 3rd party synth during play the system freezes and shuts down. or
- Please tell me which and what version. I assume its all 32 bit plugins and no bridged VST's?

ableton 9 (currently using the trial) all 32 bit and no bridge. as far as which vst i cant say now, it hasnt happened this week. i'll update tho.

4. the audio skips, and glitches for a second before resuming (which maybe wouldn't be a big deal if it wasn't a daw made for live shows)
- Can you narrow down by doing what? When does this happen?

it's happened during recording. if i turn down the latency it gets really bad. the thing is, i have a fast soundcard and a fast computer, shouldnt i finally be able to bring down the latency? also this was not the case with old versions they would press on and maybe drop an instrument, nnow it just skips and glitches. again its not that frequent but still.

5. frequent dropouts, which i never had before. in the middle of recording it'll just drop out for a second and that's how the recording will playback.
- Is it in the recording (audio) also?. It sounds as if the Soundcard either driver or setup is problematic. It would be helpful with a comparison on the same system. The older mac you mentioned running live 9. Or comparing to Live 8 on your sony vaio. This would let us know if it is a new problem, or if we are looking at underpowered soundcards or buffer issues.

yeah, the old mac i was using. (4g imac) had ableton 8. used the same soundcard (which only recently got a driver for mac) and i can't remember the cpu, but the vaio (8 gb ram and 4 cores running 2.2 ghz) is easily the fastest computer i've ever owned. i am using windows 8 tho, which may bring its own problems.

frostedcoco
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat May 11, 2013 10:58 pm

Re: so many glitches in ableton 9

Post by frostedcoco » Sun May 19, 2013 4:02 am

another thing i want to say is maybe yeah undo features are unable to apply to every third party vst
but a DAW should certainly try.

it seems like ableton stopped trying. cause i remember being able to WAAAYYYY more often.

on a related note and this may be the most important problem im having with the new ableton (live 9) is recovering songs after a crash. I have not seen this happen even once.

this happened every time ableton 8 crashed and now it never happens. combine this with the fact that it is no longer storing most of the changes you make in a third party vst and you have a system that even in the unlikely case it does recover from a crash it would only recover a small portion of the work actually being done.

this is a HUGE problem.

Lumix
Posts: 168
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 4:17 pm

Re: so many glitches in ableton 9

Post by Lumix » Sun May 19, 2013 6:13 am

Angstrom wrote:
artpunk wrote: Regarding the piano roll issue, I might be dumb here, but what is the difference between Live 8 & 9 for this aspect of note editing (apart from the midi reverse & flip tools? I am not denying you may have had problems, but I have found the piano roll in 9 quite useable, what has changed for you compared to older versions?
I hope you can get some answers & solutions to your issues.
Hard snapping (snap to grid) was removed in L9 in favour of a dynamic system. It's effectively a "smart snap" which tries to guess if you want to drag notes into off grid positions through proximity, time and whether you cross a grid boundary, however I find it less precise than a hard (reliable) snap, with a key modifier for off grid notes.
I think its worse, because it is "automatic" and therefore unpredictable. It is likely to leave notes in unexpected off-grid positions. It is trying to guess what i want, rather than letting me use the perfect system of Live 8 where I choose. The user can't turn smart-snap off, and you can't turn hard snap on, in order to be fully in control again.

It's one of the two things that keeps me using L8. I guess it's un-noticeable to other people, but for me it's like driving with a rubber band. Imprecise and unpredictable, unpleasant. It seems odd that a basic feature like "snap" was removed, but there you go.

In competing DAWs with a smart-snap provision ... It is an option.
thats one of the worst new features the smart snap - because it feels so different to previous hard snap.
the first time ive looked if i unlocked the grid 8O and then thought later its a bug or something.
but it really slows my production speed down - because sometimes "notes" getting before 1.1.1 and are not played therefore. can be really frustrating when you sound design and you need the notes placed exactly like a machine. (humanizing im doing often after getting the sound right - happened with Granite VST, which really hardly depends on how the bars are placed in the grid - overlapping - distance between the "notes") :roll:

atleast an option would be awesome to set the sensibility of the snap and i would be honest i would turn it off. the time im using it right now on a daily basis - im still not able to get used to it.

apart from that i have the only the only problem that ableton v904 x32 isnt starting - it just crashes now - 903_32 worked fine on windows 7 x64 SP1 Enterprise. i think ill download 903_32 again and downgrade seems to be the only way to get it working again.
it somehow freezes on the start - so that i went back to 902_32 now, which works really fine here since it came out. :?

but i must admit ive got really less crashes beginning with 901 to 903. which is really good news. so heads up guys.
The Davile Insaide Teh Mashihne.

nidefawl
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:31 pm

Re: so many glitches in ableton 9

Post by nidefawl » Wed May 22, 2013 8:02 am

I just upgraded from 8 to 9 Standard today.

CPU usage in 9.0.4 x64 is way higher compared to Live 8

Sets that have between 60%-80% CPU on 8 do not play back stutter free in 9. It constantly drops out.
I'm back to 8.4.1b2 x64, that version works best for me. I hope this issues are getting fixed at some point

If I could I would return the upgrade license and have my money back.

Edit: This might also be an issue caused by a plugin or jBridge

Lumix
Posts: 168
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 4:17 pm

Re: so many glitches in ableton 9

Post by Lumix » Wed May 22, 2013 5:10 pm

nidefawl wrote:I just upgraded from 8 to 9 Standard today.

CPU usage in 9.0.4 x64 is way higher compared to Live 8

Sets that have between 60%-80% CPU on 8 do not play back stutter free in 9. It constantly drops out.
I'm back to 8.4.1b2 x64, that version works best for me. I hope this issues are getting fixed at some point

If I could I would return the upgrade license and have my money back.

Edit: This might also be an issue caused by a plugin or jBridge
jbrigde adds extra RAM usage and of course extra cpu.
why do you use x64? are your projects that big? btw there are mostly of all plugins a x64 version now - i remember the only vst which i have here now is AAR 1.5 (which got updated to 1.6, but there is still a problem with the dll released by AA in april - hope they can fix it) - all other vsts have x64 version - so no need for any brigde at all.

why are at 8.4.1b2? the final 8.4.1 is out i think.

well now 9.0.4 x32 works magically - was an index error which let it crash on both computers(desktop and notebook).
hope the snap feature will get a slightly option window or something - because its really not my cup of tea.

apart from that im happy with ableton 9.good job ableton.
to everybody having problems - clean the preference folder and delete vsts which could generate problems.

and on a side note loving this here: http://i39.tinypic.com/2ziu7u1.png - its an image to bu really with a really big height - so not embed it directly.
The Davile Insaide Teh Mashihne.

nidefawl
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:31 pm

Re: so many glitches in ableton 9

Post by nidefawl » Sun May 26, 2013 10:52 am

I really need the extra RAM, I'm so happy the x64 version of both 8 and 9 work that well.

For plugins: Half of my used plugins (mostly freeware) are not available as 64 bit version.
I never felt like jbridge would add much overhead to the plugins.
Plus it handles plugin crashes very well. Ableton didn't crash in a long time for me since most of my plugins run inside jbridge.

[mal]
Posts: 515
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:51 am

Re: so many glitches in ableton 9

Post by [mal] » Tue May 28, 2013 11:00 am

Hi,

I can confirm that Jbridge will add extra load to your projects since it is a shell for plugins, and an additional framwork Live has to operate through when rendering audio in real time.
Most cases of the projects we have received at beta@ableton.com is the case of a project made with Live 8 / 32 bit. The user downloads Live 9 / 64 bit and expects benchmarks and performance to be the same. The same plugin wihtout a Jbridge will also behave differently in terms of performance when comparing 32 with 64 bit.

I would like to ask you to keep the problems reported clear and seperated, since the thread here is getting a little diffuse.
- When you experience overloads comparing a Live 8 / 32 bit project with a Live 9 / 32 bit project - send the set with a repro description to beta@ableton.com
- If you use Jbridge - remove the Jbridged plugins from the project before reporting.
- Please make sure you have WiFi, BLuetooth etc disabled before reproting.
- Have a look at the task manager on windows, or the activity monitor on mac and tell us where the spikes are - is it the CPU, The GPU (graphic processor) or is the Memory at its limit.

Best,
Mads

nidefawl
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:31 pm

Re: so many glitches in ableton 9

Post by nidefawl » Fri May 31, 2013 9:42 am

[mal] wrote:Hi,

I can confirm that Jbridge will add extra load to your projects since it is a shell for plugins, and an additional framwork Live has to operate through when rendering audio in real time.
Most cases of the projects we have received at beta@ableton.com is the case of a project made with Live 8 / 32 bit. The user downloads Live 9 / 64 bit and expects benchmarks and performance to be the same. The same plugin wihtout a Jbridge will also behave differently in terms of performance when comparing 32 with 64 bit.

I would like to ask you to keep the problems reported clear and seperated, since the thread here is getting a little diffuse.
- When you experience overloads comparing a Live 8 / 32 bit project with a Live 9 / 32 bit project - send the set with a repro description to beta@ableton.com
- If you use Jbridge - remove the Jbridged plugins from the project before reporting.
- Please make sure you have WiFi, BLuetooth etc disabled before reproting.
- Have a look at the task manager on windows, or the activity monitor on mac and tell us where the spikes are - is it the CPU, The GPU (graphic processor) or is the Memory at its limit.

Best,
Mads
Just want to point out that I compared Beta 8 x64 to Live 9 x64 using a project where some of the plugins run inside jBridge.
The project itself has over 100 loaded plugins, about half of them running inside jBridge.
Its not really something I want to report as I can't reproduce the increased load or overload in smaller projects.

Evengy
Posts: 451
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:31 am

Re: so many glitches in ableton 9

Post by Evengy » Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:50 am

not possible for me to make glitch free music. i optimized everything whats possible, used latmon and other software to check latency: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194722

i wrote ableton support but we are @ 1st level atm. tomorrow i will check a new soundcard! i wanna make music but it doesn´t make fun atm :/ i have glitches on 1% cpu.... with a i7-4770k, ssd and 12gb ram

@SuburbanThug
which soundcard do you use? i use a NI komplete audio 6 and read that there are many people who have problems with glitches etc. because of the bad drivers.

djcl.ear
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2010 5:12 pm

Re: so many glitches in ableton 9

Post by djcl.ear » Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:13 pm

If you are utilizing Windows 8 you might have the problem right there.
I haven't implemented W8 myself but at a discussion about Audio Benchmarks, an user stated this:
"if you check the DPC latency you will find that in W8 the latency is ALWAYS at 1000 us, which is highest value that you can achieved if you want a pleasant experience with your sound system, this is something that Microsoft implement on purpose in the kernel of windows 8 to reduce the power draw from the CPU especially in tablets. its not represent a problem for the common user, and the only way to reduce the DPC value is to stress the CPU to the max and the values will drop drastically to the order of 2 or 10 us"
http://www.anandtech.com/comments/6711/ ... rfc/289798

Hope it might help

SuburbanThug
Posts: 1478
Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:22 am
Contact:

Re: so many glitches in ableton 9

Post by SuburbanThug » Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:37 am

I'm just using Mac's Core Audio right now. My heavy, show stopper glitches I've isolated to using Bazille which is in alpha phase right now and is a massive cpu hog.

Lumix
Posts: 168
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 4:17 pm

Re: so many glitches in ableton 9

Post by Lumix » Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:41 am

djcl.ear wrote:If you are utilizing Windows 8 you might have the problem right there.
I haven't implemented W8 myself but at a discussion about Audio Benchmarks, an user stated this:
"if you check the DPC latency you will find that in W8 the latency is ALWAYS at 1000 us, which is highest value that you can achieved if you want a pleasant experience with your sound system, this is something that Microsoft implement on purpose in the kernel of windows 8 to reduce the power draw from the CPU especially in tablets. its not represent a problem for the common user, and the only way to reduce the DPC value is to stress the CPU to the max and the values will drop drastically to the order of 2 or 10 us"
http://www.anandtech.com/comments/6711/ ... rfc/289798

Hope it might help
is there now way to bypass this service or the way? glad im still on win7 and maybe win8 blue will be better as the current one.
The Davile Insaide Teh Mashihne.

Evengy
Posts: 451
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:31 am

Re: so many glitches in ableton 9

Post by Evengy » Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:58 am

djcl.ear wrote:If you are utilizing Windows 8 you might have the problem right there.
I haven't implemented W8 myself but at a discussion about Audio Benchmarks, an user stated this:
"if you check the DPC latency you will find that in W8 the latency is ALWAYS at 1000 us, which is highest value that you can achieved if you want a pleasant experience with your sound system, this is something that Microsoft implement on purpose in the kernel of windows 8 to reduce the power draw from the CPU especially in tablets. its not represent a problem for the common user, and the only way to reduce the DPC value is to stress the CPU to the max and the values will drop drastically to the order of 2 or 10 us"
http://www.anandtech.com/comments/6711/ ... rfc/289798

Hope it might help
Windows 8 Compatibility: The DPC latency utility runs on Windows 8 but does not show correct values. The output suggests that the Windows 8 kernel performs badly and introduces a constant latency of one millisecond, which is not the case in practice. DPCs in the Windows 8 kernel behave identical to Windows 7. The utility produces incorrect results because the implementation of kernel timers has changed in Windows 8, which causes a side effect with the measuring algorithm used by the utility. Thesycon is working on a new version of the DPC latency utility and will make it available on this site as soon as it is finished.

Source: http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml

mr.ergonomics
Posts: 914
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2007 3:12 am

Re: so many glitches in ableton 9

Post by mr.ergonomics » Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:56 pm

frostedcoco wrote:another thing i want to say is maybe yeah undo features are unable to apply to every third party vst
but a DAW should certainly try.

it seems like ableton stopped trying. cause i remember being able to WAAAYYYY more often.

on a related note and this may be the most important problem im having with the new ableton (live 9) is recovering songs after a crash. I have not seen this happen even once.

this happened every time ableton 8 crashed and now it never happens. combine this with the fact that it is no longer storing most of the changes you make in a third party vst and you have a system that even in the unlikely case it does recover from a crash it would only recover a small portion of the work actually being done.

this is a HUGE problem.
which third party vst are not able to use undo/redo? I didn't notice it so far? that said undo/redo from plugin parameters are feature I can't praise enough - cubase can't do it for example.

ian_halsall
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Joined: Fri May 27, 2011 8:52 am
Location: South London
Contact:

Re: so many glitches in ableton 9

Post by ian_halsall » Thu Jun 20, 2013 3:29 pm

Angstrom wrote:
artpunk wrote: Regarding the piano roll issue, I might be dumb here, but what is the difference between Live 8 & 9 for this aspect of note editing (apart from the midi reverse & flip tools? I am not denying you may have had problems, but I have found the piano roll in 9 quite useable, what has changed for you compared to older versions?
I hope you can get some answers & solutions to your issues.
Hard snapping (snap to grid) was removed in L9 in favour of a dynamic system. It's effectively a "smart snap" which tries to guess if you want to drag notes into off grid positions through proximity, time and whether you cross a grid boundary, however I find it less precise than a hard (reliable) snap, with a key modifier for off grid notes.
I think its worse, because it is "automatic" and therefore unpredictable. It is likely to leave notes in unexpected off-grid positions. It is trying to guess what i want, rather than letting me use the perfect system of Live 8 where I choose. The user can't turn smart-snap off, and you can't turn hard snap on, in order to be fully in control again.

It's one of the two things that keeps me using L8. I guess it's un-noticeable to other people, but for me it's like driving with a rubber band. Imprecise and unpredictable, unpleasant. It seems odd that a basic feature like "snap" was removed, but there you go.

In competing DAWs with a smart-snap provision ... It is an option.
It should be an option - I have got used to it but still - how difficult is it to make it optional?

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