Climate Change & Einstein's - You cannot solve a problem ...

[krulecello]

Hi Forge,

You don't sound like a miserable bastard to me, you sound like someone who is genuinely trying to make sense of what has become an insane society.
And because, as I mentioned before to Stringtapper, that I don't believe in 'hope', I don't find your view of my passion and belief in live (including humans) to be a 'bummer'. A non belief in hope, is simply that, the concept of 'hope' or 'no hope' has no meaning for me.

Why I don't believe in 'hope'.

'Hope' is about the future, it's about something that we have no control over, therefore, it's fairly pointless to think this way (in terms of 'hope'). 'No Hope', is much the same, the problem with 'no hope' is that whilst it's about the future it can help to create a self fulfilling prophecy via inaction. Interestingly, those that are 'hopeful' about the future continue the inaction, apart from crossing their fingers (the 'hopers' believe in governments and/or technological solutions that will save us without our lifestyles changing, etc). So, 'hope' and 'no hope' (futility) are both about 'inaction', 'lack of personal responsibility' and 'the luck of the gods'.

What I do believe in is 'action'.

Action makes 'hope' irrelevant. What I mean by this is that I take the time to look at the facts and try to understand, as best I can, what is actually going on, factually, and then I 'act' in a rational way based on the information. In an insane society, this is often seen as a radical action (or 'ideological', or 'altruistic', etc), but it's not, it's sane, it's simply a decision based on good factual information.

If we take the 'car' as an example, the facts that I have already presented on this thread demonstrate that personal car ownership is insane given it's gross inefficiency, it's impact on poorer nations and it's current impact on the environment. I have many more facts about the car from the book http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004Y74XX0 that demonstrate far far more of the problems associated with cars, they really are an ecological disaster, right now, let alone what they (we) are doing to the future.

Yes, the way I live my life puts me in a minority, but I know that it's possible for many more people to make these changes because of the simple fact that I did, and I did it in a very short space of time. It's not only 'greed' that stops people making rational decisions, it's also 'fear'.

Thanks for the reply, I was half ready to apologise for being so negative.

I think it's admirable what you're doing, and you could serve as an example. It could definitely be a way of generating publicity for the cause and for your music.

Thanks Forge, I really appreciate and admire your honesty.

[Forge.]

not that I guess that was aimed at me as I'm not American, but I am reading shit like that every day from all my facebook news feeds, and honestly I'm thinking of closign facebook because it's so depressing. This is nothing new to me.

The thing you are missing here myrnova is nobody will listen to you because you are saying exactly the same thing in every post you make. We get it. You don't like America. Now move on.

It's not that I don't like America in itself. I am quite schocked about the brainswashed american people, reminding me the hitlerjugend. I talk to many people all over the world, english, german, australian, palestinians, spanish, and so on. Well, guess? The only ones who feel "hurt" by my considerations about the crimes in the world are the americans! I mean, when I talk to some english or german, brazilian or whatever guy about something wrong of their country, they never say "you hate my country, my relatives and my friends", they understand perfectly what I mean. Maybe I meat some fascist, KKK. white pride, those crappy ones, then they start offending me because i am italian (for instance the poor McCock, who i guess is far-rightish and thinks he lives in a civilized country or smth... ). On the contrary, every american guy (does not matter if leftish or rightish) reacts always in the same way when I talk abouta U.S.A. crimes. I guess it is the effect of propaganda, they are conditioned since they are 3-4 age, like the hitlerjugend or smth. They cannot even realize there is a difference between "nation" and "people". They think it's the same concept (as in every nationalist society: infact the U.S.A. are the last nationalist country in the world: see how they behave in United Nations, always saying "no, we are the masters", or Kyoto protocol, etc.). They can't grasp this difference, and, well, it is not my fault if in every crime against humanity, disaster etc. the U.S.A. are always involved!

I don't think you're being honest here. You have definitely said things targeting actual American people for a long time now - i..e "fat and brainwashed" etc etc... of course people are going to take offence if you lump them all in to one heap with the worst their country has to offer. Maybe it's just due to the translation, but I think that's a lame excuse, you know full well that you are deliberately trying to wind people up with what you say.

I have criticized the US government and Obama as much or probably more than you, and in most cases the Americans here actually agree with me and never take it personally, it is all totally down to the way you are saying it.

[Forge.]

Thanks Forge, I really appreciate and admire your honesty.

you make some interesting points. I have 2 books out from teh Uni library that I haven't finsihed reading - 1 is by a long term environmental activist called "endgame" and one called "where we stand" by an academic, can't actually remember what discipline. But they are basically 2 sides of the coin. From the little I've read "Endgame" reeks with the disillusionment of an environmental activist who has little hope for the future due to his exhaustive efforts, while "where we stand" starts out with the guy talking about all these depressing books he has on climate change that he would re-read if he ever found out he was terminally ill so that he didn't feel like he would be missing anything. His aim was to explore all the positives and he actually found a lot.

Anyway, not sure of the point except I guess you can choose to take it in either direction.

I have recently started getting back into music after a long break and I have realised I had all kinds of self effacing ideas that my chosen career was unworthy and I have wasted years pursuing something that's useless, and recently I suddenly had an epiphany that it's actually a very noble livelihood - if you think in terms of the Buddhist idea of "right livelihood" it can be a very worthwhile profession because it brings people solace from the madness of the world. It is actually all about channeling energy into something positive, and it's one of the highest creative pursuits. It is a very spiritual thing actually.

I guess I'm saying that to illustrate how important the way you look at things is. Change the way you look at things and the things you look at change.

[Forge.]

Actually, just because they are handy and easy to paste from the library site:

Author Garte, Seymour, 1947-
Title Where we stand : a surprising look at the real state of our planet / Seymour Garte.
Publisher New York : AMACOM, c2008.
Summary

Global warming, new epidemics, and the destruction of natural resources have all made the future of the planet seem increasingly dire. But the real truth, according to respected scientist Dr. Seymour Garte, is that the environment is actually in better shape than we have been led to believe.

Where We Standwill serve as a reality check for a debate surrounded by controversy. Garte presents irrefutable evidence that the state of the environment and human welfare has been improving steadily for the past two decades and that our efforts to " save the planet" are working. Contrary to popular opinion, the air and water are getting cleaner, cancer rates are decreasing, and forestation is improving. Meant to motivate - not to lull - Where We Standwill energize future efforts with the knowledge that we canmake a difference. In giving us the good news, Garte does not neglect the bad; those issues that urgently need to be dealt with. There is still work to be done, but with a clearer picture of where we stand today, we will have a better chance for tomorrow. Hopeful, balanced, and convincing, this is a book that will change the way readers view the planet and the future.

That's right, Derrick Jensen's argument is returning to a completely agrarian lifestyle:

Author Jensen, Derrick, 1960-
Title Endgame / Derrick Jensen.
Publisher New York : Seven Stories Press, c2006.
Edition Seven Stories Press 1st ed.
Summary
The long-awaited companion piece to Jensen's immensely popular and highly acclaimed works A Language Older than Words and The Culture of Make Believe, Endgame stands to become Jensen's most influential book. Building on a series of simple but increasingly provocative premises, Jensen leaves us hoping for what may be inevitable: a return to agrarian communal life via the disintegration of civilisation itself. |Derrick Jensen is a rare and original voice of sanity in a chaotic world.| - Howard Zinn

[H20nly]

sorry.. i din't see the car analogy

Source:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=189343&p=1478251&hi ... r#p1478251

I'm failing to see the relevance here...

[andydes]

OMG

I'm shocked by the implications of this graph. How can America justify this?

[regretfullySaid]

FREEDOM FRIES

[krulecello]

sorry.. i din't see the car analogy

Source:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=189343&p=1478251&hi ... r#p1478251

I'm failing to see the relevance here...

Is relevance important to you?

[H20nly]

well, you worked so hard to dig it up... does relevance on your part imply it on mine?

[H20nly]

This graph stops at 2006 and is therefore complete bollocks

to the untrained eye, yes.

[krulecello]

Thanks Forge, I really appreciate and admire your honesty.

you make some interesting points. I have 2 books out from teh Uni library that I haven't finsihed reading - 1 is by a long term environmental activist called "endgame" and one called "where we stand" by an academic, can't actually remember what discipline. But they are basically 2 sides of the coin. From the little I've read "Endgame" reeks with the disillusionment of an environmental activist who has little hope for the future due to his exhaustive efforts, while "where we stand" starts out with the guy talking about all these depressing books he has on climate change that he would re-read if he ever found out he was terminally ill so that he didn't feel like he would be missing anything. His aim was to explore all the positives and he actually found a lot.

Anyway, not sure of the point except I guess you can choose to take it in either direction.

I have recently started getting back into music after a long break and I have realised I had all kinds of self effacing ideas that my chosen career was unworthy and I have wasted years pursuing something that's useless, and recently I suddenly had an epiphany that it's actually a very noble livelihood - if you think in terms of the Buddhist idea of "right livelihood" it can be a very worthwhile profession because it brings people solace from the madness of the world. It is actually all about channeling energy into something positive, and it's one of the highest creative pursuits. It is a very spiritual thing actually.

I guess I'm saying that to illustrate how important the way you look at things is. Change the way you look at things and the things you look at change.

Indeed, "change the way you look at things and the things you look at change".....as long as 'reality' (ie, facing the facts, as you are clearly doing) is factored into this I think it's a wonderful life theory.

I share your opinion of music, that it can be extremely powerful, moving and worthwhile. Here's a link to the true story of the Cellist of Sarajevo.
http://www.lifepositive.com/Mind/Positi ... rajevo.asp

I find his story quite inspirational.

P.S thanks for the book recommendations!

[krulecello]

I'm failing to see the relevance here...

Is relevance important to you?

well, you worked so hard to dig it up... does relevance on your part imply it on mine?

Wasn't hard.

Given that you were "failing to see the relevance" (see above), I thought that it might be prudent of me to ask you whether or not relevance is important to you? If you don't have an answer, that's okay.

[Jack McOck]

I like how y'all miss me when take time away from his forum for sleep and to make poop. To resume from where I left off, could someone please explain to me how the Italian mafia enables me to buy better quality penne than Myrnova?

[myrnova]

I like how y'all miss me when take time away from his forum for sleep and to make poop. To resume from where I left off, could someone please explain to me how the Italian mafia enables me to buy better quality penne than Myrnova?

[andydes]

I don't really agree here Forge, I've noticed what myrnova is saying on here from time to time, and on other forums too, when I used to be into politics. The Americans do seem to be more touchy than anyone else about criticism of the country they live in, which is invariably criticism of the foreign policy of the ruling elite.

I'm sure you could find some evidence via opinion polls etc. Myrnova is just going off gut instinct but he/she is right from what I've seen.

And this is where you go wrong. You think criticising the country means criticising the elite. It often comes out as criticising the people and culture.

They get a lot of it online. The reasons are obvious, but Americans who want to talk to the rest of the world and hate the corruption and foreign policy find people who repeatedly them how shit they are.

It would do my head in too. Our country is just as bad (and used to be a lot worse), but we seem to get away with avoiding most of the abuse.