Multiple shades of gray/white

[warp100]

This isn't true - the Push units used in our videos/photos/demos go through the same process as the units for sale.

The ones on the box are obviously retouched to all look identical. The ones in your videos and photos are adjusted to minimize the effect. And I guarantee you are choosing the best ones you can find when you take photos. But I have seen a fair share of ones in reviews that look completely inconsistent.

[warp100]

I encourage you to head to a shop and try out a floor demo Push for yourself. In my experience, photos tend to exaggerate color variances in ways that aren't noticeable when you're looking at it - not mention difference in lighting/saturation/etc.

I think the people who have posted photos in here know exactly how accurate they are. I guarantee mine is noticeable. This is exactly what the thing looks like: http://imgur.com/h7ZgYZf. Do you want me to post the details of the photo so you can see how untouched it is?

[warp100]

I encourage you to head to a shop and try out a floor demo Push for yourself. In my experience, photos tend to exaggerate color variances in ways that aren't noticeable when you're looking at it - not mention difference in lighting/saturation/etc.

This is just insulting. Your in a forum full of people who paid $600 and patiently waited to purchase your product as well as the upgrade to Live 9. And you are sitting here trying to make a sale to someone who hasn't seen one in front of everyone who's unhappy after paying their money. This is NOT a good way to handle this issue. I can live with the whole thing, but don't say this in front of our faces. It's just poor PR.

[Buleriachk]

I think that Push is a groundbreaking project, and a definite step forward in the musical (well, ok, sound creation/rhythmic noise anyway) world. Ableton has risked a great deal in investing in the new concept, which certainly required business courage on their part.

We take risks in investing our money in Ableton. I am VERY frustrated that two faders on my APC40 don't work now, and it is out of warranty.

But another perspective is that we are all on the edge of a musical adventure, both Ableton and ourselves. I do agree that the only way to check the LED's for anyone's personal situation is to order one from an authorized dealer and check it out; they will all allow you to return it if it is unacceptable (EBay is problematic, so make sure there is a return policy, although I have never had an issue there). The cost of the return postage is well worth the experience of being able to test it out first hand...

And it is legitimate to be disappointed that Ableton hasn't been able to make a perfect product yet; after reading up on the technology, it IS true that it is difficult to make a unit with 64 pads (Maschine does well with 16, but they aren't trying for white light either).

All of us participating in this adventure at the bleeding edge of technology have to be willing to cut each other some slack as we move forward. Those with Push are able to actually use them; those of us that are waiting are having to do without for the sake of mismatched LED's.

There certainly seem to be a lot of customers that are absolutely delighted with Push/Live, and I'm probably going to be one of them in the near future....

[sixbysix]

I asked them that either they send me a Push that looks like the promotion ones or my money back. Their response was money back so I’ll have to wait until they fix (if they even want to) the Push.

So here’s to hoping that in 6 months or so I can get a perfect Push (hopefully also with the ability to set per-pad velocity).

[warp100]

I asked them that either they send me a Push that looks like the promotion ones or my money back. Their response was money back so I’ll have to wait until they fix (if they even want to) the Push.

Well that's strange considering they were just on here saying that the promo units were the same as the regular ones

[drez]

I encourage you to head to a shop and try out a floor demo Push for yourself. In my experience, photos tend to exaggerate color variances in ways that aren't noticeable when you're looking at it - not mention difference in lighting/saturation/etc.

This is just insulting. Your in a forum full of people who paid $600 and patiently waited to purchase your product as well as the upgrade to Live 9. And you are sitting here trying to make a sale to someone who hasn't seen one in front of everyone who's unhappy after paying their money. This is NOT a good way to handle this issue. I can live with the whole thing, but don't say this in front of our faces. It's just poor PR.

Yes, this is a pretty dismissive comment, David. The first thing my 8 and 12 year old asked when they saw my Push when I turned it on was "Dad, why are those pink?". It IS noticeable, no question and they hue's are bad enough that my kids notice.

[deva]

I must say I don't really notice it. There are very subtle difference in the shades of white, but they are so slight that it's hardly possible to tell...

Some people, like you, are lucky and receive units that are better calibrated.
Just like their DEMO units they used at the shows and sent to artists / trainers before it went on sale.

That´s especially why people are allowed to be pissed. Because it´s downright false advertising.
As Ableton themselves made sure they used units that were perfectly calibrated to hide the issue.

Hence why I hold off on Push and no longer interested. At least not until I see reports that Ableton has admitted the fault and has addressed it and/or offers a manual calibration solution for existing users.

This isn't true - the Push units used in our videos/photos/demos go through the same process as the units for sale.

All the Push videos on the Ableton site look great! The pad colors are quite consistent... Nothing like the dramatic variation on my Push. The Ableton video and what I see on my Push are like night and day.

I was prepared for how bad the pads would be, and so was not angry (just somewhat disappointed), but the more you minimize the issue and imply that users are lying or faking it by photoshop editing the more I start to get pissed off at Ableton. It is Ableton doing the bullshitting, not the users!

[login]

I wonder if this is why nobody else had delivered a multicolored pad controller before: small difference between three leds on each pad are a big source of variation. NI has done it, but they obviously know that the problem is there and they dont use white to prevent this, bright colors seem to work far better than more light ones.

[Buleriachk]

Consider purchasing a Push in its present configuration as investing in completing general course requirements at a local community college before transferring to a university for your final degree....

Even with all its flaws, it IS only $600 for a device that would have been (and was) unthinkable a couple of years ago). How much is such an education worth if amortized over a couple of years - and the knowledge is gained for the next step in the journey...

[thronechild]

I wonder if this is why nobody else had delivered a multicolored pad controller before: small difference between three leds on each pad are a big source of variation. NI has done it, but they obviously know that the problem is there and they dont use white to prevent this, bright colors seem to work far better than more light ones.

Here are shots of mine in session mode with all clips the same color, just to show that almost all the colors are affected, photos taken with an iphone 5 and emailed to the computer as actual size. No retouching.

We are trying to get a percentage of Push owners that have good units and rainbow units at this thread, if you haven't added your vote please do! viewtopic.php?f=55&t=195447

Note mode:


Session mode all clips blue:


Session mode all clips green:


Session mode all clips red:


Session mode all clips white:

[fishmonkey]

I wonder if this is why nobody else had delivered a multicolored pad controller before: small difference between three leds on each pad are a big source of variation. NI has done it, but they obviously know that the problem is there and they dont use white to prevent this, bright colors seem to work far better than more light ones.

yes, this will be exactly why. not being a Maschine user i didn't realise that NI don't use white, so the Maschine comparison is invalid too. i assumed that Maschine had pure whites, since lots of people keep using it as an example of how to do it right.

[Guillermo Barrancos]

I wonder if this is why nobody else had delivered a multicolored pad controller before: small difference between three leds on each pad are a big source of variation. NI has done it, but they obviously know that the problem is there and they dont use white to prevent this, bright colors seem to work far better than more light ones.

yes, this will be exactly why. not being a Maschine user i didn't realise that NI don't use white, so the Maschine comparison is invalid too. i assumed that Maschine had pure whites, since lots of people keep using it as an example of how to do it right.

You can choose pretty much any color you like in the Maschine Editor software and no matter what color you choose with Maschine Mk2 it shows a uniform consistent colour across all 16 pads!
I owned Maschine Mk2, so I know what I am talking about.

The problem with Push isn´t just the white colour. It is used as the most dramatic example, but the inconsistency with Push is across the board, no matter what color you use. The above pictures by users clearly show that.
And sure, you can manage to find a color combination that minimises the effect the most, but it´s still there.

Good quality RGB LEDs are already pre-calibrate tested at factory to show the correct color at correct frequencies.
If AKAI has trouble calibrating these LEDs than the problem lies much deeper than they admit.

1) They just use cheap crap LEDs. Most obvious scenario, so they can cut costs to maximise profits. As good quality LEDs are expensive, especially RGB ones.

2) Their main board design is seriously flawed and unable to calibrate the LEDs uniformly at correct frequencies. An also likely scenario.

3) The most beneficial scenario would be in the calibration that can be addressed via a future firmware update that will allow users to manually calibrate. But as above scenario 1 or 2 are most likely causes, don´t bet on this one sadly.

And David, you´re not doing Ableton any favours dismissing your customers like that. Your company sounds more and more like Apple with their sheer arrogance.

I am getting very close to selling off my Ableton Live 9 license and turn away from Ableton for good.
As I am not dependent on your software and can manage perfectly fine without.

Cheers

[fishmonkey]

You can choose pretty much any color you like in the Maschine Editor software and no matter what color you choose with Maschine Mk2 it shows a uniform consistent colour across all 16 pads!
I owned Maschine Mk2, so I know what I am talking about.

i'm curious. does the Maschine have a full RGB colour palette? how many colours can you choose from? and does it do white?

[Guillermo Barrancos]

You can choose pretty much any color you like in the Maschine Editor software and no matter what color you choose with Maschine Mk2 it shows a uniform consistent colour across all 16 pads!
I owned Maschine Mk2, so I know what I am talking about.

i'm curious. does the Maschine have a full RGB colour palette? how many colours can you choose from? and does it do white?

The Maschine Mk2 has RGB LEDs. When I owned it earlier this year, with software update 1.8 you could choose between 16 preset colors. And all these 16 colors showed perfectly uniform across all 16 PADs and 8 group buttons.
As the LEDs are RGB ones, I can see them expanding the palette in a future Machine software update.
So Maschine Mk2´s LEDs still needed to be calibrated for each of the 16 colors, just like it needs to be done with Push.

And it shouldn´t matter if you offer full spectrum or just 16 preset colors of the light spectrum. It´s a matter of the quality of the RGB LEDs that are able to show a consistent color among them.

I mean. Come on now. Even IKEA is now selling RGB lights with a dial that lets you choose the entire spectrum among the LEDs and even these units are able to give a bright white colour.
Just go to your local IKEA store and check it out.