Unintended Consequences: Swiss Edition

[re:dream]

It's also kind of weird seeing a tax on garbage disposal described as 'fascist'.

Wait till you experience the real thing.

[Machinesworking]

You live in a country with one of the highest standards of living and the highest 'quality of life measurements in the world, always in the top ten. So I'm not sure where the problem is?

One of the reasons that Switzerland is doing so well is that we are one of the only countries to have a semi-direct system of democracy, which allows us to at least slow down the government's totalitarian machine. People adapt to new situations faster than you'd think, so it's important to remain vigilant about this sort of fascist bullshit. Otherwise, it becomes the norm.

Congrats, you've derailed this thread.

Not at all, this is completely on topic, just not the direction you want to go in. You're complaining about the government doing things to help that you feel don't help, and forgetting that although you think they fuck everything up, you actually have one of the better systems out there. The system is the government, they aren't separate entities. It's like saying "We voted out the totalitarian machine!" doesn't make any sense. You voted out a government you didn't like, totalitarianism implies something completely different than democracy.
You're also comparing waste management programs to fascism... really? The main component of fascism is a police state, far beyond environmental laws. Things like reading your emails, letters, search and seizure laws vanishing, giving the military the ability to detain citizens without due process etc. All of course in the name of stopping terrorist threats. In the modern day USA it's because of "Al Qaeda", in Nazi Germany it was surprise surprise! "Communist" terrorists. So again, the bigger threat to the freedom of a democracy comes not from the left, but from the right. For the most part in democracies totalitarian states have been voted in, (Spain is an exception) and it has always been a right wing fascist version of totalitarianism, which shuts down democracy immediately. Communist totalitarianisms have almost 100% come from revolutions. So, which is the bigger threat in Switzerland and the USA?

[Forge.]

^again with the misquote

[Machinesworking]

^again with the misquote

fixed

[earthloop]

^again with the misquote

fixed

Fixed what?

[Steve Ballmer]

There is no reason why there should be less trees if there is more recycling, the two are only linked by the market.

"fewer".

[Steve Ballmer]

Well done for spotting my mistake.

FYP

[Steve Ballmer]

http://www.microsoft.com

FYP

[Steve Ballmer]

[Again, it's the market that's the problem, not the intervention in it. All markets will be intervened in, even by the most conservative government. The capitalist class insists on it. The big capitalists dictate to the government and the government intervenes in the market on their behalf.

There is no reason why there should be less trees if there is more recycling, the two are only linked by the market.

I went to the market today and bought some locally grown tomatoes. They were ripe, juicy, and had far more flavor than your typical chain bought tomatoes. I'm glad for such diversity in the marketplace, and I'm glad that I'm playing my part by making insanely great software and contributing to humanity in general, so that I may be able to purchase such marvelous fruit.

I'm Steve Ballmer and tomatoes are fruit.

[Steve Ballmer]

I'm Dr. Funk N. Furter and I look forward to the day when your company is taken into public ownership under democratic workers' control.

Fascist.

[Forge.]

[Again, it's the market that's the problem, not the intervention in it. All markets will be intervened in, even by the most conservative government. The capitalist class insists on it. The big capitalists dictate to the government and the government intervenes in the market on their behalf.

There is no reason why there should be less trees if there is more recycling, the two are only linked by the market.

I went to the market today and bought some locally grown tomatoes. They were ripe, juicy, and had far more flavor than your typical chain bought tomatoes. I'm glad for such diversity in the marketplace, and I'm glad that I'm playing my part by making insanely great software and contributing to humanity in general, so that I may be able to purchase such marvelous fruit.

I'm Steve Ballmer and tomatoes are fruit.

well make the most of it stevie boy, your pals at monsanto will put an end to that diversity reeeeal soon.

[Steve Ballmer]

Corporations aspire to be monopolies. Governments ARE monopolies.

You figure out which is worse.

[Forge.]

bollocks. Corporations are monopolies, governments just do whatever the fuck they tell them.

What's the federal reserve if it's not a corporation?

[Steve Ballmer]

bollocks. Corporations are monopolies, governments just do whatever the fuck they tell them.

What's the federal reserve if it's not a corporation?

And who gave it its monopoly? Surely not the free market.

[regretfullySaid]

Um, isn't it the corporations that tell the govt what to do?