Unintended Consequences: Swiss Edition

Discuss anything related to audio or music production.
Steve Ballmer
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Re: Unintended Consequences: Swiss Edition

Post by Steve Ballmer » Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:00 pm

@Machinesworking
Machinesworking wrote:"private company", the idea that a company is somehow public if it manipulates, the government, is IMO an ideological concept, not based in anything tangible. The larger a company gets the more it manipulates politics, I really don't see any way out of that?
This is not a question of ideology, but one of definition. If we define a private company as one operating independently from the government, then it must operate independently from the government. Any critique of companies that operate in conjunction with the government is at least a critique of corporatism, if not socialism, and thus of the government.
Machinesworking wrote:Because Microsoft has lobbyists for instance it's by what seems to be your definition not a private company, and conversely if a company has only a 97% market share, the 3% very possibly being in a niche area, then it is not a monopoly. You're asking for definitions of concepts that limit the discussion to the ideological from my perspective, which is interesting to a degree, but on an ideological level all 'isms' are practical and possible. For instance your hated socialism would 100% work if it was 100% adhered to by people. Anarchy would work if people were capable of policing themselves etc.
This is also perhaps a question of definition. I've consulted a number of dictionaries and encyclopaedias and they all specify that a monopoly must at least have 100% of the market. I say at least, because there are other factors that can intervene, such as legal and natural barriers to entry. In the case of Microsoft, we had less than 100%, and there were no legal or natural barriers to entry. Hence, by all standard definitions, MS was NEVER a monopoly.

As for socialism being workable, I invite you to read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_c ... on_problem. And if this subject intrigues you, know that Mises' critique of socialism, that he expands in his book "Socialism", has never been refuted.
Machinesworking wrote:Again, it was private companies that funded the Nazis, they were afraid of socialism. They also until the Nazis started losing the war, made all kinds of cash off of WWII. The Nazis being responsible for roughly 40 million deaths, easily beat good old Stalin. So a "freer market" anyway, really let hell loose.
The Nazi market was no freer, and Stalin killed up to 60 million. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Sta ... of_victims)
Last edited by Steve Ballmer on Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Like what you like, enjoy what you enjoy, don't be afraid to make slurping sounds, and don't take crap from anybody."

Steve Ballmer
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Re: Unintended Consequences: Swiss Edition

Post by Steve Ballmer » Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:07 pm

Funk N. Furter wrote:
Steve Ballmer wrote:
Funk N. Furter wrote:I have no idea what you are on about...
This comes at no surprise to anyone who has been unfortunate enough to follow your attempts to make sense of this rather simple thread.

Incidentally, how's the job hunt going? :lol:
There are no jobs, thanks to the Tory government, which was voted in by people like you. It's your fault I have no job. Send me some money.
I have never and would never vote for the Tories. That said, I'm glad to see that your true face is finally revealing itself—that of a slacker just looking for a handout. I've never met a socialist who wasn't either:

1. Poor
2. Well-off and guilt-ridden
3. An idiot

You meet at least two of these criteria.
"Like what you like, enjoy what you enjoy, don't be afraid to make slurping sounds, and don't take crap from anybody."

Steve Ballmer
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Re: Unintended Consequences: Swiss Edition

Post by Steve Ballmer » Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:09 pm

Funk N. Furter wrote:
Steve Ballmer wrote:
Machinesworking wrote:Again, it was private companies that funded the Nazis, they were afraid of socialism. They also until the Nazis started losing the war, made all kinds of cash off of WWII. The Nazis being responsible for roughly 40 million deaths, easily beat good old Stalin. So a "freer market" anyway, really let hell loose.
The Nazi market was no freer, and Stalin killed up to 60 million. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Sta ... of_victims)
No freer than what?
Read the text you quoted. No wait, we've already ascertained that that would be asking too much of you... :roll:
"Like what you like, enjoy what you enjoy, don't be afraid to make slurping sounds, and don't take crap from anybody."

Steve Ballmer
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Re: Unintended Consequences: Swiss Edition

Post by Steve Ballmer » Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:11 pm

Funk N. Furter wrote:
Steve Ballmer wrote: The Nazi market was no freer, and Stalin killed up to 60 million. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Sta ... of_victims)
60 million! :D I don't think that's very likely.

But instead of plucking random numbers out of your derierre, tell me, who he killed and why. If you know, or can find out.
Quoted from wikipedia. But do tell us, why are defending a "non-socialist" state? :roll:
"Like what you like, enjoy what you enjoy, don't be afraid to make slurping sounds, and don't take crap from anybody."

Steve Ballmer
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Re: Unintended Consequences: Swiss Edition

Post by Steve Ballmer » Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:20 pm

Is America not like the USSR?

These are strange days indeed, when Americans are fleeing abroad and seeking political asylum. Especially when they're fleeing to Russia. (http://voxday.blogspot.ch/2013/08/putin ... s.html?m=1)

DISSENT WILL NOT BE TOLERATED.

:x
"Like what you like, enjoy what you enjoy, don't be afraid to make slurping sounds, and don't take crap from anybody."

Steve Ballmer
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Re: Unintended Consequences: Swiss Edition

Post by Steve Ballmer » Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:21 pm

Funk N. Furter wrote:
Steve Ballmer wrote:
Read the text you quoted. No wait, we've already ascertained that that would be asking too much of you... :roll:
Can't you once just answer a simple question? I want to hear an answer, not play your stupid guessing games.
Can't you for once read an actual post—especially one you cite? Why cite if you don't read? Why have an "opinion" if you can't understand? :lol:
"Like what you like, enjoy what you enjoy, don't be afraid to make slurping sounds, and don't take crap from anybody."

Steve Ballmer
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Re: Unintended Consequences: Swiss Edition

Post by Steve Ballmer » Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:23 pm

Funk N. Furter wrote:
Steve Ballmer wrote: I have never and would never vote for the Tories. That said, I'm glad to see that your true face is finally revealing itself—that of a slacker just looking for a handout. I've never met a socialist who wasn't either:

1. Poor
2. Well-off and guilt-ridden
3. An idiot

You meet at least two of these criteria.
Only because they aren't right wing enough for you.

You already know I was a child genius. You know I'm poor thanks to your capitalist chums wrecking the economy. I'm not looking for a handout, I'm looking for what's due to me. I was in court today, fighting the bastards on their home turf. 30 years paying tax and I can't claim even though I had to pack my business in through disability. That's your fucking free market. A big pile of shite.
I like how you feel you have to quote your "credentials" whenever you're made to look the fool. Maybe if you did a doctorate in economics you could really stick it to me. I know plenty of folks in the UK who have jobs. Many of them well-paying jobs. And many of those folks ain't too bright. Maybe you're just too smart to be employed :roll:

Btw, if your hands really are so crippled from typing that you can't work any more, don't you think you're spending a little too much time posting here? At nearly 9'000 posts, I'm calling bullshit on this one. You're not crippled, you're just lazy. I'm glad the government is "good" enough to not give you a penny. :lol:
Last edited by Steve Ballmer on Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"Like what you like, enjoy what you enjoy, don't be afraid to make slurping sounds, and don't take crap from anybody."

Steve Ballmer
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Re: Unintended Consequences: Swiss Edition

Post by Steve Ballmer » Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:28 pm

Funk N. Furter wrote:Wiki says 3-60. Stephane Courtois (in the Black Book of Communism) claims that 20 million of the ‘victims of communism’ were killed in the Soviet Union.
So we agree, as I said, "up to 60 million". 8)
"Like what you like, enjoy what you enjoy, don't be afraid to make slurping sounds, and don't take crap from anybody."

Steve Ballmer
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Re: Unintended Consequences: Swiss Edition

Post by Steve Ballmer » Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:29 pm

Funk N. Furter wrote:I'm unemployed because I've only just started looking for jobs
As I said, "lazy". :lol:
"Like what you like, enjoy what you enjoy, don't be afraid to make slurping sounds, and don't take crap from anybody."

Steve Ballmer
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Re: Unintended Consequences: Swiss Edition

Post by Steve Ballmer » Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:38 pm

Funk N. Furter wrote:I assume you are saying the Nazis' market was no freer than the capitalism that existed prior to 1933. But it could also be read as meaning freer than Stalin's economy. I'll go with capitalism though.

Do I win a prize?
Nope, you failed completely to understand Machines' post. We can assume that either you're doing this on purpose, or you're simply not that bright :lol:
Last edited by Steve Ballmer on Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Like what you like, enjoy what you enjoy, don't be afraid to make slurping sounds, and don't take crap from anybody."

Steve Ballmer
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Re: Unintended Consequences: Swiss Edition

Post by Steve Ballmer » Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:39 pm

Funk N. Furter wrote:
Steve Ballmer wrote:
Funk N. Furter wrote:I'm unemployed because I've only just started looking for jobs
As I said, "lazy". :lol:
I had a fucking operation in January. Then I was on crutches. I can still barely walk. My left arm was useless until recently. I started looking for jobs in May, so about 2 and a bit months ago. So far I have had one offer of an interview but I had to turn it down as it was for driving, which I can't do because of my legs, arms and eyesight.
You're also an admitted alcoholic. :roll:
"Like what you like, enjoy what you enjoy, don't be afraid to make slurping sounds, and don't take crap from anybody."

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Re: Unintended Consequences: Swiss Edition

Post by Steve Ballmer » Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:40 pm

Funk N. Furter wrote:Care to explain it?
So you're admitting that you're not a genius? 8O
"Like what you like, enjoy what you enjoy, don't be afraid to make slurping sounds, and don't take crap from anybody."

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Re: Unintended Consequences: Swiss Edition

Post by Steve Ballmer » Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:42 pm

Funk N. Furter wrote:
Steve Ballmer wrote:
Funk N. Furter wrote:Wiki says 3-60. Stephane Courtois (in the Black Book of Communism) claims that 20 million of the ‘victims of communism’ were killed in the Soviet Union.
So we agree, as I said, "up to 60 million". 8)
Both figures are stupid. It was about 15 million in the purges maybe. I'm not including any WW2 deaths. Plus there was the famine.

So, who did he kill in the purges?
Well I'm glad Funk N. Pedia has straightened that out. :roll:
"Like what you like, enjoy what you enjoy, don't be afraid to make slurping sounds, and don't take crap from anybody."

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Re: Unintended Consequences: Swiss Edition

Post by Steve Ballmer » Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:43 pm

Funk N. Furter wrote:Fuck me, I've never had such a tedious slow motion debate in my life. It's about 1% politics, 99% bollocks. It's like watching paint dry while undergoing Chinese water torture.
Well maybe you'd be kind enough to take your *cough* bollocks off the table.
"Like what you like, enjoy what you enjoy, don't be afraid to make slurping sounds, and don't take crap from anybody."

Steve Ballmer
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Re: Unintended Consequences: Swiss Edition

Post by Steve Ballmer » Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:44 pm

Funk N. Furter wrote:
Steve Ballmer wrote:
Funk N. Furter wrote:Care to explain it?
So you're admitting that you're not a genius? 8O
I'm admitting that I'm not sure how you interpret Machine's post, and that I'm rapidly losing the will to live.

I think it's probably time to give up, I have things to do, people to see, places to go.
By your definition, winning is staying. I'd hate to see what happens to your ratings if you duck out now. :roll:
"Like what you like, enjoy what you enjoy, don't be afraid to make slurping sounds, and don't take crap from anybody."

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