SERIOUS Problems with LIVE and MOTU 828 and 2408mk3

istvan_bracz · Post by **istvan_bracz** » Wed Apr 23, 2003 7:04 am

Dear Alex,
LIVE crashes constantly,
and seems to have serious troubles dealing with these interfaces.
LIVE has the most problems dealing with the MOTU 2408mk3.
I have been able to ONCE play a sequence back through the MOTU828.
Then I tried to play it the next day and- "freeze" again
(this is about the thousandth time...

I am ready to send you folks at Ableton
a letter requesting my money back,
and a BILL for wasted time).

Is there
a simple list of extensions that are KNOWN to work,
and a set of extensions with KNOWN conflicts?
Including external SCSI drives and cards,
firewire drives, PCI cards, etc.???
This would be immensely helpful...
since I must spend a great deal of time troubleshooting...

I purchased LIVE back in December of 2002,
and I have only gotten it to work ONCE solidly
without freezing or crashing.

The program is unusable in my studio.
I have never EVER spent more down time
rebooting and troubleshooting ANY program.
LIVE may just get that "award" in my next review.
What's the deal?

-very frustrated Istvan

G4/466Mhz"digital audio"/OS9.2.2/1.5 gigs RAM/
external FW drives: 80gig +120 gig/
MOTU 2408mk3/ MOTU 828/
griffin serial g4port/ adaptec 2930 scsi card/
latest drivers for MOTU and running LIVE v2.0.3
use DP 3.11, REASON,

as well as Unity Session and ocassionally MAX.
(I've tried it with all the "external crap" removed as well...)

harb · Post by **harb** » Wed Apr 23, 2003 5:26 pm

Is Live the only program that crashes, or do you get occasional crashes from other programs as well?

Have you tried swapping PCI slots with your PCI-424 card? Sometimes PCI cards like one slot better than another.

Have you checked to see if you have the latest Adaptec and Griffin drivers as well.

I have personally found that Mac OS 9.2.2 does not have issues with extensions as much as previous systems did. This may not be the case when you are using a lot of third party drivers though?

Try trashing all of your Live preferences and 2408 related prefs.
Have you checked to see if there is a firmware update for your Mac?

Hope some of this helps,

harb

istvan · Post by **istvan** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 2:25 pm

-LIVE is the only one that crashes!
-I have changed the PCI cards, but I haven't yet exhuasted all the possibilities...
-I have the latest drivers from Griffin and Adaptec (as of last week).
-Firmware updated last year, maybe a new one was released?
-I will trash the preferences and see where that gets me,
thanks!!!!

Istvan

loik · Post by **loik** » Sat Apr 26, 2003 3:35 pm

i use live 2,03 with 2403 or 828 on a G4 933 os 9.22 or X whithout any crash when it's alone,but sometimes as rewire slave of cubase sx both crashed without reason

istvan_bracz · Post by **istvan_bracz** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 3:56 pm

Loik,
Thanks for the info.
what extension set are you using?
-Istvan

Post by **Alex** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 5:47 pm

Hi Istvan,

sorry for the problems you have with Live but it's also really hard for us to find the reason for such problems.

I tested Live 2.03 on my G4/400MHz using a Motu 828 and an 2408MKII without these problems. So I don't think it's a general issue related to this audio hardware and Live.

I would agree that a list with possible "bad" extensions would be useful (also for us) but there are so many extensions that could affect each other so collecting such a list need a lot of time.

Back to your problem I need as detailed as possible description about the problem.
In general it's important to sepearet crashes or freezes. Crashes itself can be seperated in crashes where the application crashed by giving an error code or where the complet system is crashing.

Do you get freezes or crashes with all your audio devices or just with the MK2408 & the 828? And which kind of crashes?

regards,
Alex

Post by **Alex** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 7:30 pm

Hi,

we had some problems with the forum that are fixed now. But the replies counter still has the wrong value. Sorry for that.

regards,
Alex

istvan_bracz · Post by **istvan_bracz** » Wed Apr 30, 2003 4:32 am

Alex wrote:Hi Istvan,

I need as detailed as possible description about the problem.
In general it's important to sepearet crashes or freezes.
Do you get freezes or crashes with all your audio devices or just with the MK2408 & the 828? And which kind of crashes?

regards,
Alex

Alex,
thanks so much for your time!

LIVE starts up
then tells me audio has been disabled
(this is fairly new behaviour)
when I go to preferences to choose the audio,
it gives me a warning about "probable corrupt audio drivers"...
I choose sound manager, and below it,
I try to choose Sound Manager default,
then it promptly freezes.

I dont get an error message, just freeze.

I'm confused about why it doesn't allow me to choose the 828 or the 2408mk3 in the audio i/o pref window...
I've thought that maybe it is
because I had chosen the 2408 as the main audio device
in the sound control panel,
then when I fire-up LIVE I try to change it...
this seems like it would get confused,
but it gets confused no matter what I do.
If I set the Sound control panel to 828 BEFORE starting up LIVE,
I still get the same freeze.

This "freeze" behaviour only happens with LIVE.
I use Digital Performer 3.11 and REASON 2.0
as well as Unity Session 3.1 with no problems.
You said that you tested it with a 2408mkII,
did you try a mkIII?
The mkIII installed some sort of Sound Manager enabling extension...
might this be a cause?
As I said, it works with the other stuff,
so I dont think its corrupt audio drivers.
I may be wrong, though...

-A Confused Istvan

harb · Post by **harb** » Wed Apr 30, 2003 8:06 am

Istvan,

Please use the ASIO drivers for your MOTU hardware.

These can be found in your DP3 folder in the ASIO folder.

Copy these drivers and place them in the Live ASIO folder.

After doing so, launch Live and choose ASIO as the Device Type. then under Device you should see the ASIO drivers that you just copied into the Live ASIO folder.

This should get you on your way to using Live....hopefully.

harb

istvan_bracz · Post by **istvan_bracz** » Fri May 02, 2003 5:17 am

harb wrote:Istvan,

Please use the ASIO drivers for your MOTU hardware.

harb

Thanks Harb!
This got it to start-up!
This will maybe let me see what the program is really like!!!

harb · Post by **harb** » Fri May 02, 2003 5:26 am

word.........

kenn.michael · Post by **kenn.michael** » Wed May 14, 2003 8:00 am

So there definitely seems to be a problem with using Live and the PCI-424 cards that come with the NEW 2408 mkIIIs on OSX. I just upgraded my system from the 2408 mkIIs and PCI-324 card with the new system, and Live crashes everytime I select the 424 driver. It says that the driver is corrupt. But Logic runs the 424 driver perfectly. This is a 424 driver problem because Live ran successfully on my 324 card. Hopefully you guys at Ableton have access to a mkIII system to see if it's reproducable there.

Post by **Alex** » Wed May 14, 2003 1:47 pm

Hi kenn.michael,

would be nice if you could send me a OS X crash log and also the Ableton Live log (...Preferences/Live 2.0.3/Preferences/log.txt").

I don't know how familiar you're with OS X crash log stuff.
So if you have a question about it please ask me.

I'll try to get this hardware but unfortunality it's not so always so easy to get it.

regards,
Alex

kenn.michael · Post by **kenn.michael** » Wed May 14, 2003 4:40 pm

Cool, I'll send you a crash log ASAP!

Thanks.

harb · Post by **harb** » Wed May 14, 2003 6:29 pm

Alex & kenn.michael,

I have tested a PCI-424 card with an HD192 interface in a Dual 1GHZ G4, OS 10.2.5.

Works perfectly.....

So it isn't a PCI-424 issue, exclusively.

Hope this helps.

harb

SERIOUS Problems with LIVE and MOTU 828 and 2408mk3

SERIOUS Problems with LIVE and MOTU 828 and 2408mk3

the only one that crashes...

live&motu

live&motu

important to seperate crashes from freezes