Delighted with Push!

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realtrance
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Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 1:46 pm

Delighted with Push!

Post by realtrance » Thu Aug 15, 2013 4:22 pm

Hi, just finally got my Push after ordering a month or two ago, and have only spent a little time with it (though I've been studying it in descriptive detail online since the first announcements.....), and I have to say, I'm absolutely delighted with it:

- with its construction: quite solid, the pads are just the right size for both drumming and playing, the encoders are absolutely top-notch in quality (and I'm sure the touch-sensitivity will be leveraged in ingenious new ways over time), the RGB lighting is gorgeous (I really don't care about slight variances in "white," it's not a functional problem), the subtly-lit black and amber control pads are quite pleasing aesthetically (btw there's a dumb Youtube video online suggesting the look Ableton chose for these is indicative of the pad surface wearing off... completely wrong, the lighting is subtle, I'm sure in part to manage power draw via the USB connection on a laptop, as well as a design choice), the weight is excellent for keeping the unit in place while engaged actively with it. The USB port is solid and it's nice to have the additional power connection if desired. I only wish both MIDI and power to the unit could be conveyed wirelessly, somehow! :idea: The pad sensitivity range is quite nice, I prefer to avoid getting carpal tunnel and have turned it down to about -9 to get the feel I want for rapid instrumental performance.

- with its interface design: it's not as quick to grok as Maschine's interface is in relation to the software, but it's completely logical once you get the hang of it, and easy to remember what the different sections do once you understand the overall design logic. Maschine strikes me as easier to understand if you've spent any time with traditional drum machines, but Push is, like Live itself, an innovation in what such an interface could be, and so requires mastering its metaphors. Once you do, it all makes perfect sense. There's a lot of Shift-key functionality to play around with as well, which is worth just exploring.

- with its enablement of Live as an instrument. I've used Live for years with various kinds of MIDI interfaces, and both Push and Maschine are nothing more/less than "just" MIDI controllers, too, but the value is in the customization of the design so that it is tightly-coupled with the conceptual framework of the software itself. Live is so extensive in functionality and feature set now that I think it would be near-impossible to capture all the options in the software itself into a dedicated, reasonably modal controller interface, and so choices must be made. The choices here are decisive (as they are also for Maschine in its relationship with Native Instruments' software design architecture).

I don't want to get into any Live vs. Maschine discussions or comparisons; I'm new to both, and see them as having separate and individual purpose. The continuity between them is that they are a step towards turning two of the best software instrument suites in the world into dedicated performance instruments, unhooked from the constraints of being "in the box" in a software environment. They also both provide fresh metaphors for what a musical instrument performance interface should be (I'm a fan of things like Reactable, and TC-11 on iPad, btw), and they're most enjoyed as that, not as instruments you're looking to force into existing concepts you're used to. If there's any single thing I'd point to as an advantage in Maschine's case, it's that the transition from other things to Maschine is a little smoother, as it adopts existing concepts a little more closely. Push is more of a departure, and thus takes understanding of how it represents Live to really hook into as a performance instrument. But once you do so, it makes entire sense of Live as the foundation for that instrument.

So, just a few quick thoughts; I know there are more experts here with deeper, more experienced, fussier or more specialist needs that have had their say about improvements and changes, and I'm sure Ableton will do what they can over time. The evolution of Maschine since its release has been pretty substantial, I can only assume the same will be true for newborn Push.

Update: gee, I'm an idiot, I just realized -- and this is a massive advantage in the future over Maschine, if it were ever implemented: since Push has a _separate power input_ and since Wireless MIDI is a proven thing on, for instance, iPad..... think about it.... wouldn't be too hard in the future to have some sort of Wireless MIDI xmit/rcv options to hook into Push on one side (and laptop on the other? or heck, just use the laptop/PC's built-in wireless!).... and done! Push freed from its umbilical cord to the computer! Well, just a thought. But. :)
Last edited by realtrance on Thu Aug 15, 2013 5:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

tedlogan
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Re: Delighted with Push!

Post by tedlogan » Thu Aug 15, 2013 4:46 pm

I just received my Push this Monday, and must chime in that I am also delighted, although a bit of an understatement. I'm almost ecstatic to work with Live in a totally different framework - I have very rarely looked at my pc monitor since I received it. The times I did was to do some synth/rack building with M4L LFO devices to map etc. If anyone knows if you can map stuff via the Push, please do tell, though I highly doubt this can be done.

I guess I got lucky in that my Push's LEDs are consistent - or barely noticeable. This was during daytime - I modded to Seapunk scheme anyways as it's prettier, so never got to see it at night with default colours. Anyways, with Triant's colour scheme at night I see no difference between the pads whatsoever.

I find the browser to be OK. Doesn't bother me one bit - I like the old school way of diving deeper and deeper into categories - and if you wanna use your own presets/racks, it's easy enough to SHIFT-buttondown to reach "PLACES" etc, where you'd place your grouped VSTs, custom instruments etc.

The build quality is excellent, as is the playability. I am still clumsy in navigating/using this remarkable device, but I find myself getting quicker and quicker every day, muscle memory and all that.

I've also used Live for many years with various MIDI controllers. This one is in a whole other league. I love this thing.

Realtrance - where'd you turn the sensitivity down to -9? When I press and hold USER - it's either Linear, Level 1,2,3,4 or 5.

Cheers

realtrance
Posts: 23
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 1:46 pm

Re: Delighted with Push!

Post by realtrance » Thu Aug 15, 2013 4:59 pm

Hi Ted,

Sorry, I probably shouldn't have said "sensitivity" -- that refers to the response curve for the pads. It's the other option all the way over on the left, "Pad Threshold" -- the thing that controls when the pads first kick in and respond to pressure.

The curve (Linear/Logarithmic 1-->5) determines velocity sensitivity, i.e. how quickly over the whole MIDI range for velocity it ramps up; the other determines where that velocity curve "starts" in terms of sensitivity of the pads registering "first touch," if that helps.....?

They're far more sensitive than the Default setting might suggest (which feels like an MV or Akai, good for traditional drum machine); experiment with negative values to see what you can do (too far to the left and the pads start responding to electrical noise, or vibrations on the table, as the info Ableton provides makes clear).

lyovino
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Re: Delighted with Push!

Post by lyovino » Thu Aug 15, 2013 6:10 pm

Good info here, thanks. I also find the threshold and pad sensitivity have a lot to do with the patch/instrument loaded.
Some are very sensitive where as others need a boost. Something to keep in mind..
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tedlogan
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Re: Delighted with Push!

Post by tedlogan » Thu Aug 15, 2013 6:24 pm

Ah of course, thanks RealTrance.

DeNwA
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Re: Delighted with Push!

Post by DeNwA » Thu Aug 15, 2013 8:41 pm

It should be noted the pad sensitivity changes as the unit is "worn in".

drez
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Re: Delighted with Push!

Post by drez » Fri Aug 16, 2013 6:39 pm

realtrance that was a great summation of Push. Spot on, IMO.

The issue with "wireless" USB is an issue with timing "on the wire".

http://www.usb.org/developers/usbfaq#cab1

The spec expect's response delay times to be less than 26ns, based on what I'm reading here. So the delay that wireless would introduce could cause issues with the USB spec itself. USB was designed with a cable in mind.
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MacBook M1 Pro Max, 64Gig RAM, 4TB internal SSD, Live 11, Push1/2/3, Reason, VST O'Plenty

realtrance
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Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 1:46 pm

Re: Delighted with Push!

Post by realtrance » Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:19 pm

Ah, okay -- so much for that wireless idea. :o Next lifetime.

queglay
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Re: Delighted with Push!

Post by queglay » Mon Sep 02, 2013 12:46 pm

tedlogan wrote:I find the browser to be OK. Doesn't bother me one bit - I like the old school way of diving deeper and deeper into categories - and if you wanna use your own presets/racks, it's easy enough to SHIFT-buttondown to reach "PLACES" etc, where you'd place your grouped VSTs, custom instruments etc.
shift + down button on push doesn't seem to do anything for me. are you saying its possible to get to places faster ?
Load VST Presets from Push's Browser!
http://www.audiomodder.com

tedlogan
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Re: Delighted with Push!

Post by tedlogan » Mon Sep 02, 2013 2:12 pm

queglay wrote:
tedlogan wrote:I find the browser to be OK. Doesn't bother me one bit - I like the old school way of diving deeper and deeper into categories - and if you wanna use your own presets/racks, it's easy enough to SHIFT-buttondown to reach "PLACES" etc, where you'd place your grouped VSTs, custom instruments etc.
shift + down button on push doesn't seem to do anything for me. are you saying its possible to get to places faster ?
Yes - it scrolls much faster if you hold SHIFT, and then press and hold one of the amber buttons to scroll either up or down. Sorry, I should not have said "buttowndown", which might seem like I meant the arrow button. I meant the 2 smaller amber-lit buttons underneath the LCD screen when browsing.

queglay
Posts: 522
Joined: Wed May 03, 2006 7:15 am

Re: Delighted with Push!

Post by queglay » Mon Sep 02, 2013 2:18 pm

Ahh that is handy, thanks!
Load VST Presets from Push's Browser!
http://www.audiomodder.com

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