Using Reference Track and Volumes (Magic A/B)

[adam_mc]

Hi,
I'm using Magic A/B plugin to reference my tracks against pro produced stuff and with many things in this game it has thrown up more questions than answers.

Bearing in mind that I am an English teacher and not a Maths teacher can someone explain in simple terms how volume works. I'll explain my confusion better . . .

I have read a bit on the loudness wars etc. and how compressing things to oblivion removes all the dynamic movement of the track. I think I understand that RMS it the overall volume of the track taking in the high and the low volumes (?) and the peak is the highest volume that a part of the track hits. If these things are basically right the confusion I have is this:-

On Magic A/B by Samplemagic it displays the peak and RMS of the reference track and the sound I am producing in Ableton. I am using Glue Compressor to obtain a similar RMS between my track and the reference track. However, their is the ability to adjust the volumes of the two sources in the plugin which is confusing me as this allows you to make one source louder than the other. If I want my track in Ableton to sound as loud as the reference track I can turn it up using these volume controls in the plugin but that surely is making no real difference to the loudness of my track in Ableton. Should I simply be mixing in a way to match the RMS to the reference track? And when finished should I make sure that I export it with the master volume set to 0DB?

Please remember that I am an English teacher by living and technical things are not my strong point, however, I could write you a poem about my confusion!

Many thanks,
Adam

[adam_mc]

Anyone?

[adam_mc]

Bump.

[alltomorrowsparties]

Hi,
I'm using Magic A/B plugin to reference my tracks against pro produced stuff and with many things in this game it has thrown up more questions than answers.

Bearing in mind that I am an English teacher and not a Maths teacher can someone explain in simple terms how volume works. I'll explain my confusion better . . .

I have read a bit on the loudness wars etc. and how compressing things to oblivion removes all the dynamic movement of the track. I think I understand that RMS it the overall volume of the track taking in the high and the low volumes (?) and the peak is the highest volume that a part of the track hits. If these things are basically right the confusion I have is this:-

On Magic A/B by Samplemagic it displays the peak and RMS of the reference track and the sound I am producing in Ableton. I am using Glue Compressor to obtain a similar RMS between my track and the reference track. However, their is the ability to adjust the volumes of the two sources in the plugin which is confusing me as this allows you to make one source louder than the other. If I want my track in Ableton to sound as loud as the reference track I can turn it up using these volume controls in the plugin but that surely is making no real difference to the loudness of my track in Ableton. Should I simply be mixing in a way to match the RMS to the reference track? And when finished should I make sure that I export it with the master volume set to 0DB?

Please remember that I am an English teacher by living and technical things are not my strong point, however, I could write you a poem about my confusion!

Many thanks,
Adam

hey Adam
Well there's about 2 or 3 phonebooks' worth of stuff you should really know about if you are attempting to master your stuff but to answer your question...yeah you should attempt to get close to the RMS of whatever reference material you like. This is easily done by slapping a limiter on your track.

The harder part will be ensuring your peak to RMS difference is AT LEAST 6dB

This difference is sometimes referred to as a tracks' dynamic range.



I would suggest however ditching completely current lines of inquiry and instead of using a reference track to achieve 'x' loudness, instead use it to help you understand various mixing techniques. Replicating-or attempting to replicate- a reference tracks' sonic signature is probably one of the best ways to help you improve your overall sound.

Get the mix right and the master will be exponentially better.

[Tarekith]

Ahhhh, stop! Don't try mastering anything just by matching RMS values, that's a terrible way to approach it. Sorry.

Try this approach instead:

http://tarekith.com/assets/pdfs/Mastering.pdf

Much simpler than the way you're going about it.

[re:dream]

in the loudness wars
a great tree falls in silence
- compare the levels

[alltomorrowsparties]

Ahhhh, stop!

I LIKE THIS ADVICE ALSO!

[adam_mc]

Cheers for the replies, they are much appreciated.

I'll have a good read of the PDF that was linked and take on board as much as I can from there.

One of the things that I am aiming to do is get a track to a place where it could be mixed in with a set by a friend who DJs. I am concerned that the levels would be so far off that it would be impossible for him to do it.

My intention is to send some material for Pro mastering but I cannot do that with every track that I pass on to my friends to try out so I am trying to get something to a place that is usable and similar to other tracks they are playing. T my very "novice" ears one thing that is immediately apparent is the perceived volume of my tracks to pro stuff. I know I can chuck on something like Sausage Fattener or Glue and press things to oblivion but I am also aware of the loss of dynamics caused by that.

Tarekith - I'll have a good gander at the PDF that you have linked to and go from there.

Again, many thanks for your efforts in responding.

Adam

[re:dream]

Have you got a soundcloud page?

Upload your track there & see if you can get some useful feedback

[adam_mc]

Yeah I will upload to soundcloud and try and get some people to have a listen and feedback. To be honest I don't approach people and ask them to listen, it seems that forums have become quite sick of listening to pretty mundane stuff. I know that I listen to other's music far less in the last year or two. I think everyone and their dog is making music at the moment.

[adam_mc]

Hi again.
I've had a look at Tarekith's guides and they have given me some things to think about and adopt while putting a track together. However, I am still wondering about the reference track idea. For example-the drums on my tracks often do not have the same punch as pro stuff and I have isolated the drums from a couple of pro tracks and have tried to use these as a reference for my drum parts. When doing this I try to get a similar rms. Beating in mind Tarekith's guide suggesting getting the drums and bad right first and then mixing the other elements to this (I hope I am reiterating correctly), is this the right thing to do?
Cheers guys.

[fishmonkey]

in the end, matching RMS values is not going to get you where you want to be.

the RMS values are telling you average loudness levels, nothing more, nothing less.

for example, "punchiness" is not really described by RMS values.

punchiness has more to do with the kinds of sounds used and their rhythms, and the interplay with other sounds in the track, both in frequency and time. you cannot dial those things in by matching RMS values.

to give you an analogy, it is akin to thinking that a Haiku must be good because it has the right number of syllables as a Bash?...

[adam_mc]

Love the analogy, thanks.
I'm going to upload something to soundcloud and ask for some feedback and go from there. I'm playing things through my monitors (Event TR5s), my headphones and then I my car and trying to pull all those together to get something that sounds balanced, clear and relatively loud.
Joy.

[adam_mc]

Hi,
I have tried to take on board some of the replies and have posted a track I have recently finished.

If you have 5 minutes would you be so kind as to have a listen and let me know your thoughts?

Many thanks,
Adam

https://soundcloud.com/apm-bpm/the-mornings-fight

[adam_mc]

Please?