Push in Arrangement, how it is ?

[Valiumdupeuple]

Hi.
I'd like to know how, by default, Push deals with Arrangement mode. Is it a total mess ?
What works and what doesn't ?
Thx
J.

[panten]

It doesn't. At all.

[Valiumdupeuple]

The transport doesn't work?
Can't you select a midi track, arm it, then launch record and ... record your midi playing ?
Don't you have access to fx/instruments parameters ? Can't you overdub ? Record automations ?

[jestermgee]

My Push is on the way but I have done my research and recon I can spew what Google and Ableton sites tell me to answer the queries:

by default, Push deals with Arrangement mode.

No! The Push doesn't deal with "Arrangement" as such (AFAIK) in that you cannot edit your arrangement. You can control playback and record your clips/automation/tweaking into your arrangement as with any MIDI controller but it's not designed to do full arrangement editing. Not sure what you really mean when you say it "deals with arrangement"

The transport doesn't work?

Should work just fine. Watch some videos for transport features in action.

Can't you select a midi track, arm it, then launch record and ... record your midi playing ?

Yep. Again, any MIDI controller can do this.

Don't you have access to fx/instruments parameters ?

Yes, you would have access to the loaded FX in your chains and their complete parameters (Live FX/Instruments) which is why you have the LCD strip and the encoders. Plugins will allow you access to any learned controls.

Can't you overdub ?

Yes

Record automations ?

Yes

[Valiumdupeuple]

Ok, perfect.
Thx for the input !

[panten]

jestermgee is correct in that you can do these things but you cannot do them from Push with the exception of course for the Play button.

If we're talking about things exclusive to the Arrangement view you can discount fx/instruments parameters as of course these ARE available per track.


by default there is:

• no MIDI Arrangement Overdub button.
• no Back to Arrangement Button.
• no Arrangement Record button.

So there is no way to Overdub, Record Automation, selecting Clips, Scrubbing of the timeline, Access to locators, Loop Star/End points, Zooming view in/out, Collapsing/Expanding Tracks etc etc....

That is with Default Push.
However,, you can of course do this with keyboard shortcuts or Mouse or map your User Mode etc and a lot of things become available like jestermgee said, but that's not what you're asking right?

p.s. The majority of the things I mentioned above are unlocked if you install nativeKontrol's PXT-Lve
A highly recommended MIDI Remote Script.

[Valiumdupeuple]

Thanks Panten.
Acutally I want to do what you've described, but I'll do it with m4l.
I just wanted to know what's doable by default.
(Do you have access to clip parameters like clip/loop start/end point + volume and transpose when a clip is selected, like in Session ? )

[panten]

Nope, none of these things are available from Push.

Apparently (and I'm no expert on this subject by any means) The LOM is extremely limiting in what you can access in the Arrangement View. If you somehow manage to select a clip without using the mouse you have some clip paramaters that can be changed.

I tried this with PXT which allows you to step through or scrub through the timeline and will show, in the Clip View, what the cursor is currently over. This gives you some control over certain Clip parameters like start/end and loop settings but one thing I was disappointed with was the inability to alter the position. So you can't Nudge clips or copy/paste them or cut/consolidate etc. Shame really.

Good luck with your M4L endeavours though, will be interested to see what you come up with.

*edit* I think that if Ableton were to ever give us Arrangement view control (and I think that's quite unlikely with Push v1.0) then they will have to rewrite a lot of their code. I would also LOVE to see a beautifully streamlined MPC/Maschine style sample chopping workflow but I'm not holding my breath.

[Valiumdupeuple]

Actually I already do this with Maschine as a controller + m4l.
To cut, consolidate... I simple triggers shortcuts, using aka.keyboard. I can also nudge clips.
I've programmed things to move clips from the controller, but it wasn't as practical as the mouse, so I just use the mouse for this.
I just need to access clip's parameters once if selected one with the mouse (it also works if you scrub through the timeline to a clip).

I'm thinking of replacing my Maschine by Push, because I want Push's Session mode. I've replicate a lot of what it can do with Maschine, but it is not as convenient. But I need to be sure that I could adapt my patch to Push, which seems easily doable.

[jestermgee]

Ha... So there you go.

So you cannot

- Activate overdub?
- Activate/deactivate the automation recording?

I am not at all interested in trying to edit the actual timeline as a mouse is just perfect for that. I have an MCU with added editing controls but the main aim I wanted to achieve is getting into the "groove" and tapping out ideas and just throwing them into clipe, editing clips and overdubbing with automation etc on the fly without touching the PC. Once I play the ideas to the arrangement I would switch to my mouse/keyboard/MCU position and start putting the touches in as normal.

PLEASE tell me this is the workflow that it was intended? Think I may have misunderstood the OP question in regards to all this being available in Arrangement over Clip

[panten]

jestermgee you're totally right in this thinking. Ableton have declared since day one that Push is not for Arrangement view, but there will definitely be a group of people who would like some control over it.

PXT-Live gives a decent amount of the most sensible functions you might need to enable you to perform and record your session view. Things like Arrangement Record, Timeline scrubbing, Loop controls, Punch In/Out etc.

Max4Live seems like it might give you a bit more added functionality though.

[jestermgee]

Yeah I've been looking up on PTX and after watching the videos I'm definitely thjnking that for $20 it's a bargain to add all that extra functionality on top of the push itself. I am sure it will all do more than I would need. Just waiting patiently for push to arrive.