SSD and recording. Good or Bad?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Pasha
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Re: SSD and recording. Good or Bad?

Post by Pasha » Fri May 17, 2013 10:15 am

ian_halsall wrote:rude bastard
I am the hard drive serial killer. 8O
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Forge.
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Re: SSD and recording. Good or Bad?

Post by Forge. » Sun Sep 29, 2013 6:25 am

I am looking into this right now as I might be upgrading. I've looked at a few forums before I found this thread and of course this one is full of smart arse comments! ;-)

But it's also the most info heavy so far!

I have a 2011 standard 13" MBP currently and I'm now doing a lot of transferring to and from another studio with real instruments (i.e. drums with 13 mics!) so I have started working with larger sets and they are also at 88.2 or 96k so I'm starting to find my little MBP grinding to a halt

I have an opportunity to get a new one, probably 15" and I can't decide between the new Retina one which comes with a 256 SSD standard, or the normal MBP which I would need to upgrade the RAM and HD because it only ships with 4GB RAM and a 5400rpm HD

I won't ever be doing more than 2 tracks recording at home at a time, but I will be playing back maybe 40+ tracks at 88 or 96 from the studio

The other factor is Apple has now removed the DVD drive and Firewire. I'm not sure how I feel about that actually, I've just got a new cheapy Steinberg UA22 interface for home which is USB, and I don't use the drive that much any more really, but I can imagine running into a situation where it might suck to not have one.

I also have one or two Firewire caddies/ext HDs around with old shit on them, but again, not a deal breaker

I can only afford the Retina MBP with a 256GB SSD if I go that way, and it seems like a step backwards considering I'm constantly running out of space on my 320 on this. But about 80 of it is Windows/bootcamp and I might not bother with that.

What do you all think?

Retina without DVD or FW or no?

Forge.
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Re: SSD and recording. Good or Bad?

Post by Forge. » Sun Sep 29, 2013 6:27 am

another point is that the non-retina MBPs now have USB3 - and I have a USB3 external HD so that might be fast enough?

H20nly
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Re: SSD and recording. Good or Bad?

Post by H20nly » Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:14 pm

hard to decide there Forge... the thing about Retina and SSDs is that they are both young in terms of availability and both questionable in terms of affordability... and then there's need vs. want.

will retina be of more use to you than access to drive space & peripherals?

IMO (unless i'm misreading your post), the answer to that question is the answer to your question.

or... wait and save more money... and by the time you do maybe you'll be able to afford a bigger SSD too :idea:

pepezabala
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Re: SSD and recording. Good or Bad?

Post by pepezabala » Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:03 pm

don't mind the superdrive. I have not used a CD or DVD in more than a year. I didn't notice until shortly ago, that the macbook air that they gave me at work has no DVD-drive. I just never even thought about it. until recently.

Machinesworking
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Re: SSD and recording. Good or Bad?

Post by Machinesworking » Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:20 am

+++ on both the retina and SSD as steps in the right direction.
USB DVD RW drives are cheap, I got lucky and bought a used retina with a Superdrive already. I still have a lot of sound libraries for Kontakt, Machfive and the like that are on DVD only so...
The Retina Macbook Pro is built dammed solid, at 4X2.7 ghz, 512 SSD, and 16GB RAM I don't think I need to worry about it's "lack" of upgradability. :twisted:

Forge.
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Re: SSD and recording. Good or Bad?

Post by Forge. » Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:23 am

^ oh shit yeah, I forgot about the Komplete DVD marathon - I only did that recently too because I updated to v9... but saying that, it's all on my external now so I wouldn't need to do it again... but if somethign fucked up it could be a problem

but my son would inherit my 13" so worst case I guess I could commandeer it to install onto an external.. but it's a consideration

TBH I've been leaning towards the non-retina for a couple of reasons - firstly, someone I know who is working out of the same studio has a 2011 one more or less the same with the 750GB 7200rpm drive and he says he has no problems running any of the projects out of the studio. That's really all I need and I won't be running anything with more tracks than him

secondly, it's something I need to do soon and not wait/save up and the retina ones are all soldered with no chance of upgrade later - that seems like the biggest deal breaker to me. With teh non-retina I could go up to 16GB RAM later and either replace the HDD with an SSD, or I could do the Optibay thing and add an extra one. With the retina there's no possibility of either, it's either upgrade now or never, and I can't afford now.

thanks guys for the input.

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Re: SSD and recording. Good or Bad?

Post by H20nly » Tue Oct 01, 2013 4:12 am

yeah, machines is right... external optical is an easy fix.

what you said about not being able upgrade... fuk that! besides, your kid will love his glowing fruit puter :wink:

Forge.
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Re: SSD and recording. Good or Bad?

Post by Forge. » Tue Oct 01, 2013 4:34 am

^except the 512 SSD and 16GB ram is about $600 extra in total... the bottom end retina here is a 256 SSD and 8GB RAM.. mainly the SSD is what concerns me as that's not a lot, and never is a strong word when it comes to upgrading.
Machinesworking wrote: The Retina Macbook Pro is built dammed solid, at 4X2.7 ghz, 512 SSD, and 16GB RAM I don't think I need to worry about it's "lack" of upgradability. :twisted:

fishmonkey
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Re: SSD and recording. Good or Bad?

Post by fishmonkey » Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:31 am

i would go non-Retina for the user serviceability and expandability.

Machinesworking
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Re: SSD and recording. Good or Bad?

Post by Machinesworking » Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:18 am

Forge. wrote:^except the 512 SSD and 16GB ram is about $600 extra in total... the bottom end retina here is a 256 SSD and 8GB RAM.. mainly the SSD is what concerns me as that's not a lot, and never is a strong word when it comes to upgrading.
Honestly the RAM is the biggest concern. USB 3 and Thunderbolt mean that adding more external hard drive space is a cinch, plus you can upgrade the SSDs (flash drive actually I think?), but the RAM is the RAM in a Retina. I've just started playing with string libraries that broke the 8GB of RAM my Mac Pro had. so when I came into some money I waited until a used 16GB Retina popped up cheap. The other reason was/is I'm convinced that at some point here Live will be geared towards loading entire Sets in RAM, for speed etc. and I want to be ready for that.

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Re: SSD and recording. Good or Bad?

Post by Forge. » Tue Oct 01, 2013 2:09 pm

Machinesworking wrote: The other reason was/is I'm convinced that at some point here Live will be geared towards loading entire Sets in RAM, for speed etc. and I want to be ready for that.
you know theres already a button in clip view that lets you load samples into RAM? be interested to know how that runs with full stems actually

at high quality like 96/24, say around 300MB per stem, 40 tracks would be about 12GB

Dragonbreath
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Re: SSD and recording. Good or Bad?

Post by Dragonbreath » Wed Oct 02, 2013 5:23 pm

@ Pasha
Recording to disc with a 5400rpm is realisticly a issue you will never run into. I recorded 8 tracks simultaneously at 96/24 without any troubles at all on my MBP. Where you might have issues with a 5400 is with playback of large sample library like session drums. I have now upgrade to a 7200rpm and I had a project I using session drums in and my friend loaded on his mac mini (more powerfull CPU) with 5400rpm and he had disc issues that I didnt have on my older MPB with the 7200rpm. Also I dont know why your under the impression you cant upgrade your RAM in you Imac. RAM can easilly be upgraded on Imacs. (expect for the 21,5 built after mid 2012) [url]http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1423[url]

SSD would be great but as your saying budget is in the way for most people. I would try to avoid external drives for playback of multisample library unless its on USB3 or thunderbolit. External can bottle neck trough USB or firewire. You wont get the full potential compared to an internal disc.

I would avoid the seagate hybrid. I considered that drive alot when I bought mine but after reading some review it seemed alot of people that installed it in MBP had issues with it. I didnt risk it They will only speed things on frequently accessed data. So mostly usefulll as your boot disc. You computer will boot faster and your frequently used apps and files ( aka Live) Would be practicly no advantage as secondary external drive (takes 3-4 access before its cached in the SSD)

Running everything off the same disc is not as bad people would have you think. Of course you will get performance from running 2 disk, (one for programs and OS and one for recording and samples) but it is far from being necessary.The project I am currently working on has close to 20 tracks including 1 sometimes 2 session drums streaming from disk and can still overdub a couple tracks live without any disk overloads. I ended up buying a hitachi travelstar 7200rpm 750gigs and works very well. The only issue is it seems to draw a bit too much power when I switch to the higher end video card in the MBP and the power supply starts to get uncomfortably high if I am running live at the same time. Had not considered that when I bought it

@ Retina vs reg MPB
I am on the fence with that as well. Thinking of getting a new MPB soon enough and getting away from the retina not bieng able to be upgraded at all and wanted to do the double hardrive (maybe with SSD eventually) with the original unibobdy. I think for audio applications the retina model makes no sense. The problem is I wont be able to afford it till next summer and I am afraid they will go all retina by then :S

Pasha I would save a bit and go for a quad Imac if your looking to upgrade. Once you factor in screen and accessories the difference in price is not so much and you will get much more powerfull computer. Maybe consider the 27' as the ram is still user exchangable on that model

Pasha
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Re: SSD and recording. Good or Bad?

Post by Pasha » Thu Oct 03, 2013 5:55 am

Dragonbreath wrote:@ Pasha
Recording to disc with a 5400rpm is realisticly a issue you will never run into. I recorded 8 tracks simultaneously at 96/24 without any troubles at all on my MBP. Where you might have issues with a 5400 is with playback of large sample library like session drums. I have now upgrade to a 7200rpm and I had a project I using session drums in and my friend loaded on his mac mini (more powerfull CPU) with 5400rpm and he had disc issues that I didnt have on my older MPB with the 7200rpm. Also I dont know why your under the impression you cant upgrade your RAM in you Imac. RAM can easilly be upgraded on Imacs. (expect for the 21,5 built after mid 2012) [url]http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1423[url]

SSD would be great but as your saying budget is in the way for most people. I would try to avoid external drives for playback of multisample library unless its on USB3 or thunderbolit. External can bottle neck trough USB or firewire. You wont get the full potential compared to an internal disc.

I would avoid the seagate hybrid. I considered that drive alot when I bought mine but after reading some review it seemed alot of people that installed it in MBP had issues with it. I didnt risk it They will only speed things on frequently accessed data. So mostly usefulll as your boot disc. You computer will boot faster and your frequently used apps and files ( aka Live) Would be practicly no advantage as secondary external drive (takes 3-4 access before its cached in the SSD)

Running everything off the same disc is not as bad people would have you think. Of course you will get performance from running 2 disk, (one for programs and OS and one for recording and samples) but it is far from being necessary.The project I am currently working on has close to 20 tracks including 1 sometimes 2 session drums streaming from disk and can still overdub a couple tracks live without any disk overloads. I ended up buying a hitachi travelstar 7200rpm 750gigs and works very well. The only issue is it seems to draw a bit too much power when I switch to the higher end video card in the MBP and the power supply starts to get uncomfortably high if I am running live at the same time. Had not considered that when I bought it

@ Retina vs reg MPB
I am on the fence with that as well. Thinking of getting a new MPB soon enough and getting away from the retina not bieng able to be upgraded at all and wanted to do the double hardrive (maybe with SSD eventually) with the original unibobdy. I think for audio applications the retina model makes no sense. The problem is I wont be able to afford it till next summer and I am afraid they will go all retina by then :S

Pasha I would save a bit and go for a quad Imac if your looking to upgrade. Once you factor in screen and accessories the difference in price is not so much and you will get much more powerfull computer. Maybe consider the 27' as the ram is still user exchangable on that model
Thanks for reply! Very useful and clear. :D
I started this thread in May so far I have managed to spare some money here and there and still I have to make a buying decision. Now we have Haswell iMacs with a slightly reduced price. The 27" Quad now is 3.2GHz!
Just for the records my 2008 iMac has 2 RAM slots and it should work as 2GB (1+1) or 4GB (2+2). Everymac reports that it's possible to have 6GB (2+4). What seems difficult is to find a 4GB DRAM stick DDR2.. that's why it cannot be upgraded. However, it's time to look for upgrade. Based on budget I'll try to see if a 27" base Haswell iMac can be done saving a little more :) or revert to base iMac 21.5 (Intel Iris Pro Graphics wit shared VRAM - scary?) with an external 7200 RPM USB 3. Sure I have placed Mac Mini out of the game.

Best
Pasha
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Live 9 Suite,Zebra 2.6,Guitar, Bass, VG99, JV1010 and some controllers
______________________________________
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eyeknow
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Re: SSD and recording. Good or Bad?

Post by eyeknow » Thu Oct 03, 2013 7:08 am

Rude, it's the new nice! :lol:

My question is, it's DAMN expensive. I have 7200 drives right now and they are......adequate. I really want to go SSD but ffs, it would be hundreds of dollars (like 500+) to get less storage than I have now. Plus I'd seem to have to get drive bays that fit a 2.5 :? It's too complicated for an old fart like me........

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