Audio crackling with new i7 build.

[anra]

OnBoard graphics gives crackling too, similiar way regarding scrolling or resizing etc. FireWire was not active that time. If I remove mouse and keyboard while crackling project is playing, there is no difference. Same thing when disabling USB from device manager. I did not uninstall though.

Quite a funny almost. All it takes to crackle sometimes, just a one smiley moving. Like this if I scroll so only one smiley appearch, the project crackles.

anra, maybe you didn't see my questions on the 2nd page:

Does it also happen with your internal soundcard ?
With disconnected Saffire ? With deactivated firewire ?
With disconnected mouse ? With deactivated USB ?
If yes I would try to borrow a graphic card somewhere...

[nathannn]

You should install Linux and any software to make music on Linux.
If the crackling and noise burst doesn't happen with Linux then you will know that its windows not being able to handle your external sound card properly.
Im pretty sure it is a problem with windows and not your hardware since I have had these problems starting with the first interface I bought in 2006.
I remember back in 2006 reading something about windows and Intel both causing problems so I switched to amd and the problem was gone. Once I switched back to Intel the problem also came back.

[eyeknow]

With all due respect, that doesn't make any sense. Countless people make music w/o any problems on PC/intel/windows. It's not a common problem what the OP is going through. Companies like ableton make their software for BOTH platforms, it's not like everyone with a PC is giving up.

I have the EXACT SAME SOUNDCARD as the op, works fine here. So, it's certainly not MS/intel.

[Sional]

Did you install your 8GB of RAM as a matched set (i.e. did you start with 4GB and then add a further 4GB).
When I added a further 8GB to my system, even though I chose the same type of memory from the same manufacturer (the only difference being the new RAM had low-profile heat spreaders), I experienced intermittent problems including audio crackles. It took me a while to identify the new RAM as the culprit as I had upgraded my USB soundcard at the same time. A check on the manufacturer's website (Corsair) showed that they do not guarantee RAM sticks will work together unless they are sold as a package. I can't be 100% sure that the RAM chips were the problem because I could not be bothered to do further testing to totally eliminate the motherboard as a possible suspect.

[anra]

It was a 8GB (2x4) Kit/package. Also Asus Z87-K qualified list had this particular RAM kit as compatible. I could try with just one 4gb.

Did you install your 8GB of RAM as a matched set (i.e. did you start with 4GB and then add a further 4GB).
When I added a further 8GB to my system, even though I chose the same type of memory from the same manufacturer (the only difference being the new RAM had low-profile heat spreaders), I experienced intermittent problems including audio crackles. It took me a while to identify the new RAM as the culprit as I had upgraded my USB soundcard at the same time. A check on the manufacturer's website (Corsair) showed that they do not guarantee RAM sticks will work together unless they are sold as a package. I can't be 100% sure that the RAM chips were the problem because I could not be bothered to do further testing to totally eliminate the motherboard as a possible suspect.

[Sional]

Anra you need to be aware that your problem will not have a generic cause (i.e. because you are using Windows instead of Linux, because you are using 7 instead of XP, because you are using 64 bit instead of 32 bit or because you are using the onboard graphics instead of a dedicated VGA). Why? Because plenty of people are using a similar setup (albeit not identical) with no problems.
The problem is specific to your setup and could be:
1. A defective hardware component or cable (either within or outside of the computer).
2. An unsatisfactory software driver.
3. Conflicting software
4. Interference from an external device (something transmitting waves or a pulsing electrical device).

You need to test for the fault at different configurations of your setup. Start with the easy tests first. For example, disconnect everything from your computer except for keyboard, mouse and the USB audio interface. Ensure you have no background tasks running. Open a blank Ableton project, drag operator onto a midi track, create a midi clip, insert notes using the mouse and play the loop. If you experience crackles (and make sure to listen over headphones and speakers) you could download ASIO4all and use that instead of the Saffire drivers. If the crackles still persist you can disconnect the USB audio device and test using the motherboards onboard audio device, etc.etc. This testing method should help to eliminate suspects and finally identify the root of your problem.

[anra]

I bought a 40eur PCIe graphics card, uninstalled integrated Intel HD 4600 drivers. Plugged in the new PCIe card and installed latest drivers and rebooted. One example Live set that crackled on 128 or 256 samples when graphics were moving was opened now and playing with 32 samples only and I was able to browse internet without crackles.

I don't know if the card would have worked without the optimizations I had already made while using HD 4600, if installed on fresh system. I don't have any extensive testing done but it seems the new card solved the issue.

Thanks everyone who had interest and contributed here.

[nathannn]

Anra you need to be aware that your problem will not have a generic cause (i.e. because you are using Windows instead of Linux, because you are using 7 instead of XP, because you are using 64 bit instead of 32 bit or because you are using the onboard graphics instead of a dedicated VGA). Why? Because plenty of people are using a similar setup (albeit not identical) with no problems.
The problem is specific to your setup and could be:
1. A defective hardware component or cable (either within or outside of the computer).
2. An unsatisfactory software driver.
3. Conflicting software
4. Interference from an external device (something transmitting waves or a pulsing electrical device).

You need to test for the fault at different configurations of your setup. Start with the easy tests first. For example, disconnect everything from your computer except for keyboard, mouse and the USB audio interface. Ensure you have no background tasks running. Open a blank Ableton project, drag operator onto a midi track, create a midi clip, insert notes using the mouse and play the loop. If you experience crackles (and make sure to listen over headphones and speakers) you could download ASIO4all and use that instead of the Saffire drivers. If the crackles still persist you can disconnect the USB audio device and test using the motherboards onboard audio device, etc.etc. This testing method should help to eliminate suspects and finally identify the root of your problem.

First off I should apologize for the post made earlier, I wrote it when I was pretty tired. I have told myself not to post anywhere on the internet when drunk or tired but when Im drunk or tired I like to rebel against myself.

In response to you and to eyeknow:

Microsoft has admitted in the past to there being issues with external usb audio cards and not fire wire. I overlooked that the op is using a fire wire interface.
To my knowledge Microsoft has released a hot fix for Usbaudio.sys for every version of Windows starting with xp. Its my opinion that the problem still exist with external usb audio cards and my intuition tells me it also exist with fire wire. There are too many cases of a person using an external device with Windows, and having white noise burst and crackling when using these devices, for there not to be a problem within Windows itself.

I understand that faulty hardware or bios settings can play a role, the pci latency timer could be set too high within the bios but, the op has stated that he has tried all of the suggestions you posted regarding testing the hardware in earlier post. For some one that has the knowledge to build their own pc these suggestions are fairly common knowledge.

Using asio4all in place of the manufacturers driver is going to do nothing, the op would still be using an external device with Windows on the same machine. Asio4all only makes sense when a user is using an on board sound card.
Also a "generic cause" using Windows instead of another operating system can very well expose the cause if the problem is within the operating system.

I do understand that some people are using Windows systems and external devices with out problems, I have never met them but I have heard that these people exist. When I hear that people are getting along just fine using Windows I suspect that they are either using a high end pci card,simply using on board audio with asio4all or they did a tweak a long time ago and have not upgraded anything including software since then.
The problem with white noise does not seem to happen when using on board audio or pci devices and its my suggestion to people who build their computer to use them over an external device.
I also understand that some people have seemingly fixed the problem by following online "tweak your windows system for audio" guides but I feel these fixes (if they even work) are only temporary and the problem will come back with a software or hardware upgrade.
Should you really even have to tweak an operating system to get it to record and play audio properly? This is another indication that something is wrong with Windows and professional audio is not taken seriously nor is anywhere near a priority for Microsoft. I feel that Microsoft just don't get that many people use their computers to be creative instead of for constant consumption.

If there was no problem with Windows why would a company like Apogee chose to go mac only and lose all of the revenue from the pc customers.
Look on the pro tools forums under windows, there are constant unsolvable issues with either the mbox or avids fire wire hardware using Windows.

The only real fix is to either use a mac (I never have had a problem using an interface on my macbook) or to use a high end pci card or on board audio. If you are using a Windows machine and experiencing problems I suggest either sell the interface and get a pci card or only use the interface to record and switch to on board audio for all monitoring and editing.

I don't have a solution but the whole reason for me posting here is because I would like more people to approach Microsoft with these issues and let them know a problem exist that they need to fix and if they cant fix it more people will be dropping Windows for pro audio use.

[eyeknow]

I bought a 40eur PCIe graphics card, uninstalled integrated Intel HD 4600 drivers. Plugged in the new PCIe card and installed latest drivers and rebooted. One example Live set that crackled on 128 or 256 samples when graphics were moving was opened now and playing with 32 samples only and I was able to browse internet without crackles.

I don't know if the card would have worked without the optimizations I had already made while using HD 4600, if installed on fresh system. I don't have any extensive testing done but it seems the new card solved the issue.

Thanks everyone who had interest and contributed here.

I'm feeling a bit wounded here because that was my first suggestion. Anyways, I'm glad it worked, it's frustrating when things don't work.

[eyeknow]

Anra you need to be aware that your problem will not have a generic cause (i.e. because you are using Windows instead of Linux, because you are using 7 instead of XP, because you are using 64 bit instead of 32 bit or because you are using the onboard graphics instead of a dedicated VGA). Why? Because plenty of people are using a similar setup (albeit not identical) with no problems.
The problem is specific to your setup and could be:
1. A defective hardware component or cable (either within or outside of the computer).
2. An unsatisfactory software driver.
3. Conflicting software
4. Interference from an external device (something transmitting waves or a pulsing electrical device).

You need to test for the fault at different configurations of your setup. Start with the easy tests first. For example, disconnect everything from your computer except for keyboard, mouse and the USB audio interface. Ensure you have no background tasks running. Open a blank Ableton project, drag operator onto a midi track, create a midi clip, insert notes using the mouse and play the loop. If you experience crackles (and make sure to listen over headphones and speakers) you could download ASIO4all and use that instead of the Saffire drivers. If the crackles still persist you can disconnect the USB audio device and test using the motherboards onboard audio device, etc.etc. This testing method should help to eliminate suspects and finally identify the root of your problem.

First off I should apologize for the post made earlier, I wrote it when I was pretty tired. I have told myself not to post anywhere on the internet when drunk or tired but when Im drunk or tired I like to rebel against myself.

In response to you and to eyeknow:

Microsoft has admitted in the past to there being issues with external usb audio cards and not fire wire. I overlooked that the op is using a fire wire interface.
To my knowledge Microsoft has released a hot fix for Usbaudio.sys for every version of Windows starting with xp. Its my opinion that the problem still exist with external usb audio cards and my intuition tells me it also exist with fire wire. There are too many cases of a person using an external device with Windows, and having white noise burst and crackling when using these devices, for there not to be a problem within Windows itself.

I understand that faulty hardware or bios settings can play a role, the pci latency timer could be set too high within the bios but, the op has stated that he has tried all of the suggestions you posted regarding testing the hardware in earlier post. For some one that has the knowledge to build their own pc these suggestions are fairly common knowledge.

Using asio4all in place of the manufacturers driver is going to do nothing, the op would still be using an external device with Windows on the same machine. Asio4all only makes sense when a user is using an on board sound card.
Also a "generic cause" using Windows instead of another operating system can very well expose the cause if the problem is within the operating system.

I do understand that some people are using Windows systems and external devices with out problems, I have never met them but I have heard that these people exist. When I hear that people are getting along just fine using Windows I suspect that they are either using a high end pci card,simply using on board audio with asio4all or they did a tweak a long time ago and have not upgraded anything including software since then.
The problem with white noise does not seem to happen when using on board audio or pci devices and its my suggestion to people who build their computer to use them over an external device.
I also understand that some people have seemingly fixed the problem by following online "tweak your windows system for audio" guides but I feel these fixes (if they even work) are only temporary and the problem will come back with a software or hardware upgrade.
Should you really even have to tweak an operating system to get it to record and play audio properly? This is another indication that something is wrong with Windows and professional audio is not taken seriously nor is anywhere near a priority for Microsoft. I feel that Microsoft just don't get that many people use their computers to be creative instead of for constant consumption.

If there was no problem with Windows why would a company like Apogee chose to go mac only and lose all of the revenue from the pc customers.
Look on the pro tools forums under windows, there are constant unsolvable issues with either the mbox or avids fire wire hardware using Windows.

The only real fix is to either use a mac (I never have had a problem using an interface on my macbook) or to use a high end pci card or on board audio. If you are using a Windows machine and experiencing problems I suggest either sell the interface and get a pci card or only use the interface to record and switch to on board audio for all monitoring and editing.

I don't have a solution but the whole reason for me posting here is because I would like more people to approach Microsoft with these issues and let them know a problem exist that they need to fix and if they cant fix it more people will be dropping Windows for pro audio use.

It's all good, I was snippy to some degree. I just was thinking that most of us use windows w/o much bother. I had a mac, it didn't work very well with live (would get to about 60-70% of the cpu and freak out) but I get that a ton of people are happy with their macs.

Anyways, it was the graphics. I believe that the reason has something to do with an onboard card directly using the cpu for something a dedicated card can take on itself. I don't have a degree in computing so I don't think I could give a good technical answer, but I understand the principal.

[Sional]

Glad to hear your problem is solved. However, although an external graphics card has cured the problem it has not necessarily identified the root cause of the problem. I suspect a conflict between Intel and Focusrite drivers (which is why I suggested testing using ASIO4all) or (extremely unlikely) a defect on the CPU or motherboard which is now masked by having an external graphics card. Do you think that Focusrite have tested their drivers on the new Haswell CPUs?
I have a relatively un-tweaked Windows 7, 64 bit system, Ivy Bridge CPU, no graphics card and an NI Komplete Audio 6 USB interface and have no problems even at low latencies (64 samples). Previously I was using my Access Virus Snow as my USB audio interface on the same system again with no problems, albeit at 128 samples which was the lowest supported sample rate. Also, I personally know people who are successfully using Windows (XP, 7 and 8 ) with USB audio interfaces.

[Donnie]

WOW!
Are these statements based on fact, heresy or just your opinion?
What tests have you carried out to confirm these statements or maybe you could direct me to a reputable website which supports your statements. I somehow think Intel technicians would not see things your way. Are you really saying "the graphics device you are relying on is garbage. It doesn't matter what the specs or performance is."!!!
By the way "shit", "garbage" and "shitty" are not engineering terms that I am familiar with.

It's called experience.

Of course, its not rocket science to know that some products are developed and manufactured at a higher standard than others...which leads to them functioning more reliably. Lost cost integrated solution comes with some caveats. Duh.

[Sional]

So a 40 euro PCIe graphics card has been developed and manufactured at a higher standard than an Intel Haswell i7 CPU?
Talking of experience, my first computer was a Commodore Vic-20.

[jbodango]

my best suggestion to is to make sure windows default sound device is not the audio interface you are using for your DAW

[Donnie]

So a 40 euro PCIe graphics card has been developed and manufactured at a higher standard than an Intel Haswell i7 CPU?
Talking of experience, my first computer was a Commodore Vic-20.

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are trolling here.