Tired of Poor performance?

Kush'd · Post by **Kush'd** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 4:50 am

beachnote wrote:another thing,

live uses challenge response authentication, and it's scripting protection code that's wrapped around just about every other piece of code in live. that means every time you move a fader, play back music, anything...it is constantly checking your hardware and other protective schemes. the price we pay for this in performance is HUGE.

some of the cracking teams like H2O have mentioned this before on forums and nfo files, actually saying how unbelievable it is that these companies sacrifice so much performance for a protection scheme that will be cracked regardless. they estimate 30%-50% increase in performance if the protection scripting code was not there.

anyway, it is a shame us paying customers suffer because of this...

If this is true then all I have to say is "what the @#$%!!!!!!!!!" Why not just make a freakin dongle?!?

Kush'd · Post by **Kush'd** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 5:06 am

robtronik wrote:
It is also called Live. So its primary usage is for Live performance. It is really only since live 4 that you could consider this a comparable production studio.

Actually, in one of the tutorials that comes with Live 5 it says that Live wasn't originally conceived for live use. Not too sure why they called it Live though; just figured I'd throw it in for the arguments sake!

atomic · Post by **atomic** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 5:13 am

Kush'd wrote:
beachnote wrote:another thing,

live uses challenge response authentication, and it's scripting protection code that's wrapped around just about every other piece of code in live. that means every time you move a fader, play back music, anything...it is constantly checking your hardware and other protective schemes. the price we pay for this in performance is HUGE.

some of the cracking teams like H2O have mentioned this before on forums and nfo files, actually saying how unbelievable it is that these companies sacrifice so much performance for a protection scheme that will be cracked regardless. they estimate 30%-50% increase in performance if the protection scripting code was not there.

anyway, it is a shame us paying customers suffer because of this...

If this is true then all I have to say is "what the @#$%!!!!!!!!!" Why not just make a freakin dongle?!?

NO SH*T! Man is that true?!?!?!? if so that is just sad. Give me a dam usb key and save me the cost of a new laptop.

braj · Post by **braj** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 5:55 am

atomic wrote:
Kush'd wrote:
beachnote wrote:another thing,

live uses challenge response authentication, and it's scripting protection code that's wrapped around just about every other piece of code in live. that means every time you move a fader, play back music, anything...it is constantly checking your hardware and other protective schemes. the price we pay for this in performance is HUGE.

some of the cracking teams like H2O have mentioned this before on forums and nfo files, actually saying how unbelievable it is that these companies sacrifice so much performance for a protection scheme that will be cracked regardless. they estimate 30%-50% increase in performance if the protection scripting code was not there.

anyway, it is a shame us paying customers suffer because of this...

If this is true then all I have to say is "what the @#$%!!!!!!!!!" Why not just make a freakin dongle?!?
NO SH*T! Man is that true?!?!?!? if so that is just sad. Give me a dam usb key and save me the cost of a new laptop.

I'd like some proof that this is the case before everyone goes off the deepend.

LOFA · Post by **LOFA** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 6:03 am

We don't want dongles.

Dongles get ganked. Dongles dissapear.

Twenty years from now I want to have access to my sets, with or without a dongle.

If this 30-50% hype is true, it angers me greatly. But you know what? I don't blame 'em for looking out for themselves.

bensuthers · Post by **bensuthers** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 6:08 am

> says that Live wasn't originally conceived for live use.

Live was conceived for Robert Henke's use.

braj · Post by **braj** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 6:10 am

LOFA wrote:We don't want dongles.

No kidding. I never would have bought Live if it required a dongle (and never will buy anything from Steinberg because of it).

I didn't buy Logic Pro because of it (got LE7 instead because it didn't need one).

I would rather have no copy protection at all but from my experience Live5 is efficient enough for me. I'm not claiming parity with any other app, but like someone said earlier, if it requires more CPU at least it requires less brainpower, which at this stage in my life I'm running short on. The main time I see any glitching is when I have other applications sunning (like email and web browsers). Which shouldn't really be running while I'm using the comp as a DAW anyway.

I'd also say that generally Live5 doesn't glich when I'm doing stuff in real time, which I can't say about other sequencers I've used. It is much more in tune with my flow partially because of this fact.

Kush'd · Post by **Kush'd** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 6:36 am

braj wrote: I'd like some proof that this is the case before everyone goes off the deepend.

Proof?!? I'm an American; we don't need proof to go off the deep end!

(Just to clarify, I'm being EXTREMELY sarcastic. Right now, sad to say, I'm embarrassed to say I'm American)

(Before anyone asks rhetorically, yes, this is about as off-topic as it gets!)

braj · Post by **braj** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 6:38 am

Kush'd wrote:
braj wrote: I'd like some proof that this is the case before everyone goes off the deepend.
Proof?!? I'm an American; we don't need proof to go off the deep end!

(Just to clarify, I'm being EXTREMELY sarcastic. Right now, sad to say, I'm embarrassed to say I'm American)

(Before anyone asks rhetorically, yes, this is about as off-topic as it gets!)

I think anyone that has US citizenship should be granted the right to consider themselves human instead of American. Not that it's really much better, but still.

Kush'd · Post by **Kush'd** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 7:03 am

braj wrote:
I think anyone that has US citizenship should be granted the right to consider themselves human instead of American. Not that it's really much better, but still.

I'm pretty sure we still have that right...until sometime early next year.

braj · Post by **braj** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 7:06 am

Kush'd wrote:
braj wrote:
I think anyone that has US citizenship should be granted the right to consider themselves human instead of American. Not that it's really much better, but still.
I'm pretty sure we still have that right...until sometime early next year.

Or later this year

MarkH · Post by **MarkH** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 7:15 am

I notice that changing the ASIO or COREAUDIO buffer to a smaller number doesn't really change Live's CPU utilization very much. With Cubase or Logic going from 512 -> 256 -> 128 makes a significant difference. Live's performance meter always equates to using any other sequencer with a 128 buffer, even when using Live with a 256 or 512 buffer the utilization is always reflective of any other program at 128. It's like internally Live has to always operate witha 128 (or smaller) buffer, regardless of what the soundcard is set to. Maybe becuase of the real-time perforamce aspect?

DJRetard · Post by **DJRetard** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 7:31 am

MarkH wrote:I notice that changing the ASIO or COREAUDIO buffer to a smaller number doesn't really change Live's CPU utilization very much. With Cubase or Logic going from 512 -> 256 -> 128 makes a significant difference. Live's performance meter always equates to using any other sequencer with a 128 buffer, even when using Live with a 256 or 512 buffer the utilization is always reflective of any other program at 128. It's like internally Live has to always operate witha 128 (or smaller) buffer, regardless of what the soundcard is set to. Maybe becuase of the real-time perforamce aspect?

Interesting point. Im going to check that out.

SonnyBonnier · Post by **SonnyBonnier** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 7:47 am

beachnote wrote:another thing,

live uses challenge response authentication, and it's scripting protection code that's wrapped around just about every other piece of code in live. that means every time you move a fader, play back music, anything...it is constantly checking your hardware and other protective schemes. the price we pay for this in performance is HUGE.

some of the cracking teams like H2O have mentioned this before on forums and nfo files, actually saying how unbelievable it is that these companies sacrifice so much performance for a protection scheme that will be cracked regardless. they estimate 30%-50% increase in performance if the protection scripting code was not there.

anyway, it is a shame us paying customers suffer because of this...

Yep... it´s true. We loose something like 20%-30% in performance because of this copyprotection.

And as everyone knows, until Microsoft releases Longhorn, every program there is will be cracked anyway. Probably after this point also.

hambone1 · Post by **hambone1** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 8:58 am

I was gigging live with Cubase 12 years ago.

I just got an LE version for free with a Presonus Firepod.

Never thought I'd consider going back!