emulating a no-input mixer.

[re:dream]

I've been fascinated by the music of toshimaru nakamura

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqfGbtqDVDk

How would one go about emulating a no-input mixer inside live?

Would you recommend simply routing audio within live to create a feedback loop?
Or are there cool M4L devices that can create audio feedback loops?

I'm going to start experimenting but I'd be interested in hearing ideas...

[leisuremuffin]

Live's send and return tracks are excellent for creating feedback matrices. just make a bunch, enable all sends, put some effects on em, assign stuff to controllers and have a blast.

[panten]

While this might give some interesting results, I feel that it won't give you the same level of depth as setting up an analogue mixing desk.

In my experience, and I'm going back a while to around 1999 or 2000 when I was messing around with noise music and no-inputs feedback, you get such an amazing amount of nuance with analogue. You can literally turn a pot such a minute fraction and it completely changes the sound. This depends on how complex your setup is.

If you can get your hands on an analogue mixer then it's highly recommended. Sometimes it's great to let the sound feel the air to breathe.

My humble old school feedback.

[Johnisfaster]

Its worth playing with in live but youll never get the same results as analog. Im not a purist but analog feedback chains are just bonkers compared to digital.

[leisuremuffin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2FukCw0oS8

I'm not sure if everyone has seen that video or not. It's Robert Henke making rainstorm sounds with lives effects on sends with feedback.

obviously not just feedback, but pretty awesome implementation of live's sends.


analog feedback is different, but you can't go insane with different effects on different feedback paths unless you have a pretty expensive setup. If you want to do feedback in the analogue world and have infinite money, i'd recommend getting a modular setup and checking out some of the excellent matrix mixer modules available.


actually, this one is pretty cheap:
http://www.doepfer.de/A138m.htm

of course to do anything really interesting with it you're going to need some stuff to process the feedback with...

[panten]

That Robert Henke video is really interesting but to me it still sounds very digital. (not saying it's not possible within Live as I haven't tried) The range of tone and texture you can get with even a simple analogue setup is incredible.

I used to use my old Tascam 4-track, a couple of Boss distortion and bass filter pedals. an Alesis reverb rack unit and Compressor&Gate. Almost blew my ears off a few times so you have to be very careful or use a limiter at the end somewhere.

One bit of advice.. Be very aware of where your Panic button/fader is.

[re:dream]

Yes, I can imagine that for something like this, analogue would be way way better.

Infinite money... that would be nice. Any tips on how to organize that would also be appreciated.

Limiter, panic button, of course. I like my hearing and don't want to damage it

I've seen the Henke video but I will watch it again.

[panten]

Infinite money... that would be nice. Any tips on how to organize that would also be appreciated.

If you're serious about this endeavour, getting a basic setup shouldn't cost you the world.

You could pick up:
Distortion Pedal = £39
old 4-track with 8 inputs (all include pan, aux 1 & 2 (effects loops), 4 include trim, hi and low EQ, parametric mid EQ)= £30 - 50
Bunch of guitar cables = £20

Won't really break the bank if you do a bit of hunting.

Anyway this is massively off topic.

[re:dream]

Not really off topic... That's gear I could get in Cape Town for not too much money. But in the meanwhile I will play around within Live

[stringtapper]

Check out the sets Angstrom links in this thread:

viewtopic.php?p=675375&highlight=

They're along the lines of what you're talking about.

Have your monitors turned down when you open one of those. The tangerine set gave me a lot of feedback, turn off tracks 13 and 17 to ease it. These sets are old so I guess some changes in Live have changed the way they work.

[re:dream]

Good, will check it out. Right now I am in a hotel room with nowt but headphones and my MBP's inbuilt speakers. So no risk of audio damage, though I may already be freaking out the staff

[TomViolenz]

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[chapelier fou]

did you try routing an output from your soundcard to an input ?

[Johnisfaster]

Im kinda chuckling at the no input being expensive notion. With a behringer mixer and 3 or 4 guitar pedals you could get a huge range of sounds going. On a budget of $300 you could get a set up comparable to many touring hipsters.

Its worth noting that sometimes youll still want some input, no input feedback is fun but sometimes its nice to start with a sound that evolves into feedback and back again.

[re:dream]

Its worth noting that sometimes youll still want some input, no input feedback is fun but sometimes its nice to start with a sound that evolves into feedback and back again.

Understood. It does not have to be no-input... it is playing with feedback audio that I would find interesting. I am interested in the way in which the audio becomes a responsive and living thing, and the possibilities that are linked to the kind of real time control and modulation you would have to do.