More than one crossfader!

[Clearscreen]

in live 5 (and only live5 unfotunately), assign the same knob by using two midi input tracks on two different midi channels to two separate volume controls. then invert the max and min levels on one of the volume controls and voila - extra crossfader. given you have 16 channels you could have one knob crossfading between groups of say 8 and 8 tracks, or 12 and 4, or 6 and ten etc.
and of course, you could set up a few different knobs to handle different crossfaders.
like i say though, it's only a linear fade but it's better than nothing.

i've also had midi key presses assigned to two different switches for alternating mutes (eg trk 1 on, trk 2 off -> trk 1 off, trk 2 on). using this you could build two completely different assignment setups for your controller and switch between them via a midi cc switch or a midi key press. you'd probably want to have endless rotaries for jumpless switching though!

the trick to it is splitting the input to different midi channels with midi yoke and then routing it back in to live as a remote control source.

in live 4 you can do multiple assignments, but only live 5 has the invert and max/min stuff letting you make crossfaders and range limited controllers.

hope this is useful to someone out there...

[supster]

i'm not quite following you ...

are you saying you can assign one midi controller to two seperate faders using midi yoke?

please say yes, and please walk us thru this because this is key to doing a lot of things i cant do without it

.

[Clearscreen]

thats exactly what i've been saying!
you have to have midi yoke installed and set up right in the preferences.
i'll try and explain it clearer (sorry i'm not the best at explaining stuff so try and bear with me....)

this'll only work as a crossfader in 5, but the principle works in 4 as well for multiple controls...

1. setup midi yoke 1 as a track input AND remote in the preferences.
2. set midi yoke 1 as a track output only (or you get midi feedback...)
3. create two midi tracks and have the input coming from your controller on both.
4. set the output on the first midi track to midi yoke 1 channel 1
5. set the output on the second midi track to midi yoke 1 channel 2
6. mute the second track and assign a knob to a fader.
7. unmute the second track and mute the first, then assign the same knob to a different fader and invert the min/max settings for the second assignment
8. unmute the first track and start crossfadin'

if you want you can limit the range of the midi assignments in live 5 so it's not always the full throw. of course you don't have to assign to faders only either.
this is a fairly basic assignment for this, and i've thought of a few other crazy uses, but haven't had time to actually do anything much more complex yet.
if this doesn't make sense i can email you an .als that should work once you get the midi preference settings right.

[Machinate]

assign the same knob by using two midi input tracks on two different midi channels to two separate volume controls.

please explain this. Go through the different channels and describe how they should be set up.

[Clearscreen]

assign the same knob by using two midi input tracks on two different midi channels to two separate volume controls.

have two midi tracks set up in session view, with the input on both set as coming from your controller. have the output set to midi yoke 1 on both, with each track set to a different midi channel (eg, channel 1 on midi channel 1, and channel 2 on midi channel 2).

then mute midi track 2 and assign the output of midi track 1 to a knob. unmute track 2 and mute track 1 then assign the output of midi track 2. unmute everything and you should be moving two things with one knob...

bascically as the same control is being converted to 2 different midi channels, live sees it as 2 different cc's and as such can be assigned to 2 different things.

i'll try and find somewhere to post an example .als tomorrow that might make things a bit clearer.

[MrYellow]

From what I've read.... I believe the problem with just inverting the CC is
that a cross-fader working on a linear "curve" like that will cause uneven
gain. So that the volume will not remain even as you cross-fade.

There should be some posts in the archive about using Bidule to properly
scale the CC's to get a decent crossfade curve.

-Ben

[Clearscreen]

From what I've read.... I believe the problem with just inverting the CC is
that a cross-fader working on a linear "curve" like that will cause uneven
gain. So that the volume will not remain even as you cross-fade.

you're right there, and it is kind of a workaround really. it isn't the same as having a nice curve adjustable crossfader...
still, multiple assignments etc. may come in handy for some i guess.

[ben_blue]

ok, good stuff were getting into here.

first, u said multiple assignments are possible in L4...i assume u meant VIA midi yoke, right? otherwise im blown, as ive only seen 1:1 ratio of assignments and parameters.

second, i just started doing similar things, with Plogue Bidule. Alot of people use it here, nad that, in combonation with yoke, yields similar possibilites and more.

i use Bidule to duplicate then remap a CC,a nd send the result to Live 4.
result - i turn the channel down, and one of its sends goes up!
BUT, in Bidule i added a Lin -> Log function, which made it, well, Logarithmic!
much better!


i am in beta for 5, but didnt realize yet you could invert. - and this multiple assignment thing, its the same for 5, i assume, as in, you were referring to the use of Midi Yoke ,( which btw if you are new too it, is super easy and free, so go get it.)
b

[Clearscreen]

it does work in live 4, and yes it is the same way using midi yoke.
it's more useful in 5 because you can invert and limit the knob ranges basically.
if you follow the steps above you should be able to figure out how you can assign the knob to more targets. as far as i can tell you can use 16 per knob.

bidule does probably work better for doing this. hopefully they'll give us curve control for idi assignments in a later update/version.... fingers crossed!

[supster]

mute midi track 2 and assign the output of midi track 1 to a knob. unmute track 2 and mute track 1 then assign the output of midi track 2. unmute everything and you should be moving two things with one knob...

ok this is where i'm losing you:

1 - the technique is only applicable to MIDI channels, and not audio?

so then it is not possible with this to control the volume fader of an audio track, and the volume of a return track with one knob? and

2 - i dont know what you mean by "assign the output of a midi track to a knob"

- the output of the midi tracks are already set to Yoke NT 1[channel #]

- i still get the "your controller is already assigned to [control]" message if i try and do the second one

its probably me ...
.

[Clearscreen]

1 - the technique is only applicable to MIDI channels, and not audio?

sorry, i should have been clearer, it applies for anything you can assign midi to. which means the answer to

so then it is not possible with this to control the volume fader of an audio track, and the volume of a return track with one knob?

is that you DEFINITELY can do that.

basically what you do is split the control to 2 different midi channels on the same midi yoke output.
run your controller in through two different midi tracks, with the output going to (say) midiyoke 1, but with each track on a different midi channel. this is the key part, as live doesn't distinguish between remote inputs, only midi channels coming from the remote inputs.
to assign the controller though, you need to mute/unmute tracks otherwise live gets confused. if you leave them both unmuted when you're trying to assign them only the track with the highest channel number seems to get assigned i've found.

try this set out and see if it helps. i've got the one midi cc (16) controlling a volume fader, a send and a pan on a couple of tracks.

http://www.savefile.com/files/7234850

(you'll need to have midiyoke 1 enabled as track input and track output as well as remote on the input side.)

if you play with the track mutes you can see where each split is sending the controller.

[psilosly]

This is a cool technique, but its kinda sad that its necessary. Having multiple MIDI assignments should be supported by the software, no?

[palomo]

you should take a look to this thread
http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic. ... highlight=

[Clearscreen]

This is a cool technique, but its kinda sad that its necessary. Having multiple MIDI assignments should be supported by the software, no?

True, but this lets you do it for now without too much trouble.
i'd love to see multiple assignments as well as being able to change the midi curve (ie logarithmic etc as well as linear) and midi translation to keystroke in an update soon...

supster, did this work out for you?
i can recommend daniels vst stuff as well. can be really useful if you think creatively with it.