Live devices mapping in Push:Community mapping is done! :)

Discuss music production with Ableton Live.
Valiumdupeuple
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Re: Change Live devices default mapping in Push:on Page 7

Post by Valiumdupeuple » Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:08 pm

TomViolenz wrote:
Valiumdupeuple wrote:The extra space at the end of 'Fix On ' was the solution, you rock Tom.
Where did you noticed this ?
Just by the way I make those mappings.
I rack the instrument, then assign what I would like in a bank to the macros, then I go to "rename" in the macro fields, and copy the name from there to past it in the code. That's where I noticed this being unusual for the fixed on parameters.
BTW my new mapping (so it wasn't the final one yet ;-) ) contains this and the frequency control for fixed and free...

Try it: :-)

Code: Select all

OPR_BANK1 = ('A Fix Freq', 'A Fix Freq Mul', 'A Coarse', 'A Fine', 'A Fix On ', 'Osc-A On', 'Osc-A Wave', 'Osc-A Level')
OPR_BANK2 = ('Ae Mode', 'Osc-A Phase', 'Ae Init', 'Ae Peak', 'Ae Attack', 'Ae Decay', 'Ae Sustain', 'Ae Release')
OPR_BANK3 = ('B Fix Freq', 'B Fix Freq Mul', 'B Coarse', 'B Fine', 'B Fix On ', 'Osc-B On', 'Osc-B Wave', 'Osc-B Level')
OPR_BANK4 = ('Be Mode', 'Osc-B Phase', 'Be Init', 'Be Peak', 'Be Attack', 'Be Decay', 'Be Sustain', 'Be Release')
OPR_BANK5 = ('C Fix Freq', 'C Fix Freq Mul', 'C Coarse', 'C Fine', 'C Fix On ', 'Osc-C On', 'Osc-C Wave', 'Osc-C Level')
OPR_BANK6 = ('Ce Mode', 'Osc-C Phase', 'Ce Init', 'Ce Peak', 'Ce Attack', 'Ce Decay', 'Ce Sustain', 'Ce Release')
OPR_BANK7 = ('D Fix Freq', 'D Fix Freq Mul', 'D Coarse', 'D Fine', 'D Fix On ', 'Osc-D On', 'Osc-D Wave', 'Osc-D Level')
OPR_BANK8 = ('De Mode', 'Osc-D Phase', 'De Init', 'De Peak', 'De Attack', 'De Decay', 'De Sustain', 'De Release')
OPR_BANK9 = ('Filter On', 'Filter Type', 'Filter Freq', 'Filter Res', 'Shaper Type', 'Shaper Amt', 'Fe Amount', 'Filt < LFO')
OPR_BANK10 = ('Fe Mode', 'Fe End', 'Fe Init', 'Fe Peak', 'Fe Attack', 'Fe Decay', 'Fe Sustain', 'Fe Release')
OPR_BANK11 = ('Pe Amount', 'Pe End', 'Pe Init', 'Pe Peak', 'Pe Attack', 'Pe Decay', 'Pe Sustain', 'Pe Release')
OPR_BANK12 = ('Osc-A < Pe', 'Osc-B < Pe', 'Osc-C < Pe', 'Osc-D < Pe', 'LFO < Pe', 'Pe Amt A', 'Pe Dst B', 'Pe Amt B')
OPR_BANK13 = ('LFO On', 'LFO Type', 'LFO Range', 'LFO Sync', 'LFO Rate', 'LFO Amt', 'LFO Retrigger', 'LFO < Vel')
OPR_BANK14 = ('Le Mode', 'Le End', 'Le Init', 'Le Peak', 'Le Attack', 'Le Decay', 'Le Sustain', 'Le Release')
OPR_BANK15 = ('Osc-A < LFO', 'Osc-B < LFO', 'Osc-C < LFO', 'Osc-D < LFO', 'Filt < LFO', 'LFO Amt A', 'LFO Dst B', 'LFO Amt B')
OPR_BANK16 = ('Ae Loop', 'Ae Retrig', 'Fe Loop', 'Fe Retrig', 'Pe Loop', 'Pe Retrig', 'Le Loop', 'Le Retrig')
OPR_BANK17 = ('Pe On', 'Pe Amount', 'Spread', 'Transpose', 'Algorithm', 'Time', 'Tone', 'Volume')
OPR_BOB = ('LFO Amt', 'Filter Freq', 'Fe Amount', 'Pe Amount', 'Algorithm', 'Transpose', 'Time', 'Volume')
OPR_BANKS = (OPR_BANK1,
 OPR_BANK2,
 OPR_BANK3,
 OPR_BANK4,
 OPR_BANK5,
 OPR_BANK6,
 OPR_BANK7,
 OPR_BANK8,
 OPR_BANK9,
 OPR_BANK10,
 OPR_BANK11,
 OPR_BANK12,
 OPR_BANK13,
 OPR_BANK14,
 OPR_BANK15,
 OPR_BANK16,
 OPR_BANK17)
OPR_BOBS = (OPR_BOB,)
OPR_BNK_NAMES = ('Oscillator A', 'Oscillator A Envelope',  'Oscillator B', 'Oscillator B Envelope', 'Oscillator C', 'Oscillator C Envelope', 'Oscillator D', 'Oscillator D Envelope', 'Filter', 'Filter Envelope', 'Pitch Envelope', 'Pitch Destination', 'LFO', 'LFO Envelope', 'LFO Destination', 'Envelope Looping', 'Misc')

Haha ! It's almost exactly how I set up mine :lol:

TomViolenz
Posts: 6854
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:19 pm

Re: Change Live devices default mapping in Push:on Page 7

Post by TomViolenz » Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:11 pm

Valiumdupeuple wrote:
TomViolenz wrote:
Valiumdupeuple wrote:The extra space at the end of 'Fix On ' was the solution, you rock Tom.
Where did you noticed this ?
Just by the way I make those mappings.
I rack the instrument, then assign what I would like in a bank to the macros, then I go to "rename" in the macro fields, and copy the name from there to past it in the code. That's where I noticed this being unusual for the fixed on parameters.
BTW my new mapping (so it wasn't the final one yet ;-) ) contains this and the frequency control for fixed and free...

Try it: :-)

Code: Select all

OPR_BANK1 = ('A Fix Freq', 'A Fix Freq Mul', 'A Coarse', 'A Fine', 'A Fix On ', 'Osc-A On', 'Osc-A Wave', 'Osc-A Level')
OPR_BANK2 = ('Ae Mode', 'Osc-A Phase', 'Ae Init', 'Ae Peak', 'Ae Attack', 'Ae Decay', 'Ae Sustain', 'Ae Release')
OPR_BANK3 = ('B Fix Freq', 'B Fix Freq Mul', 'B Coarse', 'B Fine', 'B Fix On ', 'Osc-B On', 'Osc-B Wave', 'Osc-B Level')
OPR_BANK4 = ('Be Mode', 'Osc-B Phase', 'Be Init', 'Be Peak', 'Be Attack', 'Be Decay', 'Be Sustain', 'Be Release')
OPR_BANK5 = ('C Fix Freq', 'C Fix Freq Mul', 'C Coarse', 'C Fine', 'C Fix On ', 'Osc-C On', 'Osc-C Wave', 'Osc-C Level')
OPR_BANK6 = ('Ce Mode', 'Osc-C Phase', 'Ce Init', 'Ce Peak', 'Ce Attack', 'Ce Decay', 'Ce Sustain', 'Ce Release')
OPR_BANK7 = ('D Fix Freq', 'D Fix Freq Mul', 'D Coarse', 'D Fine', 'D Fix On ', 'Osc-D On', 'Osc-D Wave', 'Osc-D Level')
OPR_BANK8 = ('De Mode', 'Osc-D Phase', 'De Init', 'De Peak', 'De Attack', 'De Decay', 'De Sustain', 'De Release')
OPR_BANK9 = ('Filter On', 'Filter Type', 'Filter Freq', 'Filter Res', 'Shaper Type', 'Shaper Amt', 'Fe Amount', 'Filt < LFO')
OPR_BANK10 = ('Fe Mode', 'Fe End', 'Fe Init', 'Fe Peak', 'Fe Attack', 'Fe Decay', 'Fe Sustain', 'Fe Release')
OPR_BANK11 = ('Pe Amount', 'Pe End', 'Pe Init', 'Pe Peak', 'Pe Attack', 'Pe Decay', 'Pe Sustain', 'Pe Release')
OPR_BANK12 = ('Osc-A < Pe', 'Osc-B < Pe', 'Osc-C < Pe', 'Osc-D < Pe', 'LFO < Pe', 'Pe Amt A', 'Pe Dst B', 'Pe Amt B')
OPR_BANK13 = ('LFO On', 'LFO Type', 'LFO Range', 'LFO Sync', 'LFO Rate', 'LFO Amt', 'LFO Retrigger', 'LFO < Vel')
OPR_BANK14 = ('Le Mode', 'Le End', 'Le Init', 'Le Peak', 'Le Attack', 'Le Decay', 'Le Sustain', 'Le Release')
OPR_BANK15 = ('Osc-A < LFO', 'Osc-B < LFO', 'Osc-C < LFO', 'Osc-D < LFO', 'Filt < LFO', 'LFO Amt A', 'LFO Dst B', 'LFO Amt B')
OPR_BANK16 = ('Ae Loop', 'Ae Retrig', 'Fe Loop', 'Fe Retrig', 'Pe Loop', 'Pe Retrig', 'Le Loop', 'Le Retrig')
OPR_BANK17 = ('Pe On', 'Pe Amount', 'Spread', 'Transpose', 'Algorithm', 'Time', 'Tone', 'Volume')
OPR_BOB = ('LFO Amt', 'Filter Freq', 'Fe Amount', 'Pe Amount', 'Algorithm', 'Transpose', 'Time', 'Volume')
OPR_BANKS = (OPR_BANK1,
 OPR_BANK2,
 OPR_BANK3,
 OPR_BANK4,
 OPR_BANK5,
 OPR_BANK6,
 OPR_BANK7,
 OPR_BANK8,
 OPR_BANK9,
 OPR_BANK10,
 OPR_BANK11,
 OPR_BANK12,
 OPR_BANK13,
 OPR_BANK14,
 OPR_BANK15,
 OPR_BANK16,
 OPR_BANK17)
OPR_BOBS = (OPR_BOB,)
OPR_BNK_NAMES = ('Oscillator A', 'Oscillator A Envelope',  'Oscillator B', 'Oscillator B Envelope', 'Oscillator C', 'Oscillator C Envelope', 'Oscillator D', 'Oscillator D Envelope', 'Filter', 'Filter Envelope', 'Pitch Envelope', 'Pitch Destination', 'LFO', 'LFO Envelope', 'LFO Destination', 'Envelope Looping', 'Misc')

Haha ! It's almost exactly how I set up mine :lol:
Well, we hacked your computer and then worked from there... :twisted:

Valiumdupeuple
Posts: 1155
Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 12:36 pm
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Re: Change Live devices default mapping in Push:on Page 7

Post by Valiumdupeuple » Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:46 pm

You stupid geeks, my fridge was full of peyotl but instead you took my laptop !
8O
:lol:

TomViolenz
Posts: 6854
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:19 pm

Re: Change Live devices default mapping in Push:on Page 7

Post by TomViolenz » Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:54 pm

Valiumdupeuple wrote:You stupid geeks, my fridge was full of peyotl but instead you took my laptop !
8O
:lol:
Well that hacking thing works remotely, otherwise we would have certainly raided your fridge ;-) (That porn though...... 8O :mrgreen: )

Dragonbreath
Posts: 561
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2007 2:34 am

Re: Change Live devices default mapping in Push:on Page 7

Post by Dragonbreath » Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:57 pm

How you acces the banks past 8?

I dont have push only an apc40, is it possible to go past bank 8?

TomViolenz
Posts: 6854
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:19 pm

Re: Change Live devices default mapping in Push:on Page 7

Post by TomViolenz » Mon Oct 28, 2013 10:10 pm

Dragonbreath wrote:How you acces the banks past 8?

I dont have push only an apc40, is it possible to go past bank 8?
I don't know.
Metastatik said, that Push is unique in some regards and that it is therefore critical to point out that this new mapping will effect all remote surfaces, because some could possibly not work properly with the changed file.
As I have set my eyes on Push and want to make it the perfect synth (if there is such a thing ;-)), I have totally disregarded any compatibility issues.
But if you follow Metastatiks leads on page 7, I'm sure you can adept the file perfectly for the APC as well (might have to limit yourself to 8 banks, and possibly live without the BoB banks)

I think if you would share that resultant file, it could be a valuable resource to the community. We could host it together with the Push one we are making.

For most effects you will probably be able to just use our mappings, once we released them.
For the instruments, where we made heavy use out of the 16 banks, you may have to adapt them to the APC,

syncr
Posts: 38
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2011 2:38 am

Re: Change Live devices default mapping in Push:on Page 7

Post by syncr » Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:31 pm

TomViolenz wrote: I just made an account on GitHub, but it seems there is no way to actually upload a file... (you can just make one).
Need to setup a repository. A bit different then an account. I wasn't sure if Stray's compilation was going to be the authoritative source but if we want to use a Github repo I'm happy to help with that. However, if this is just going to be a single master file and perhaps a read-me, Github might be a bit excessive for ongoing maintenance.

TomViolenz
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Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:19 pm

Re: Change Live devices default mapping in Push:on Page 7

Post by TomViolenz » Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:41 am

syncr wrote:
TomViolenz wrote: I just made an account on GitHub, but it seems there is no way to actually upload a file... (you can just make one).
Need to setup a repository. A bit different then an account. I wasn't sure if Stray's compilation was going to be the authoritative source but if we want to use a Github repo I'm happy to help with that. However, if this is just going to be a single master file and perhaps a read-me, Github might be a bit excessive for ongoing maintenance.
To be honest: I think that's exactly what it will be like. Maybe with updates and other users files and Read Me's with different mappings. I don't think interactive code manipulation will be necessary.

PS: See your PM.... ;-)

TomViolenz
Posts: 6854
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:19 pm

Re: Change Live devices default mapping in Push:on Page 7

Post by TomViolenz » Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:42 pm

The project:
As a prospective user of Push, I marveled at its potential and then got frustrated at all the little things that kept it from being perfect for what I'd like to do with it. My biggest gripe was always the way the parameters of Lives own devices were arranged in Push and how there seemed to be nothing that could be done about it. And then I started to wonder: maybe there IS something that could be done about it….
The result of this endeavor is the file you can download now. After we (I got shortly a big chunk of the Live community involved - thanks guys, great work! :-)), figured out how to change the settings, we decided to save all you guys some work and just make our favorite mapping and then just share it … and here it is: :)

Download:

-Goto: http://filepi.com/i/i2Ibe91
-Download the .zip file and unzip it.

Thanks go to Stray(Metastatic) for all the useful information he provided for achieving this goal. To shadx312 for further information, as well as syncr and Valiumdupeuple for preliminary testing.
Most of the mapping and the initial start of the project was done by TomViolenz and most of the testing by tedlogan.

We hope you will enjoy this as much as we will!
Tom and Ted :-)


Important:
This will give you a much enhanced mapping of your Live devices in Push! But because you are overwriting the _Generic version of the necessary file, this will affect ALL MIDI remote surfaces you use.
If you just use Push, this may not matter to you. But if you already use others, you should check if this changes functionality you need for those!
If you don't like the new mapping, just reverse it by the steps described below.


Installation:
1: Shut down Live
2: Go to your program directory, right click on the Live 9 icon and choose "Show Package Content"
3: Go to: Contents/App-Resources/MIDI Remote Scripts/_Generic and rename the Devices.pyc file in it to defaultDevices.pyc
4: Drop the Devices.py file from this download into this folder
5: Restart Live (The new mappings should now be in place)

Note: If you use several different versions of Live 9, you will have to repeat this procedure for each of them, if you wish to use this mapping with all of them. (But you can of course just choose one)

Optional
6: Go back to the same location. You'll now see that Live has compiled your Devices.py into Devices.pyc, while leaving the Devices.py intact.
You can now rename this Devices.py file to customDevices.py
In this way you always have a copy of it in case Ableton overwrites the Devices.pyc when it up-dates.

Reversal:
7: Shut down Live
8: Go to your program directory, right click on the Live 9 icon and choose "Show Package Content"
9: Go to: Contents/App-Resources/MIDI Remote Scripts/_Generic and rename the Devices.pyc file in it to customDevices.pyc
10: Rename the file defaultDevices.pyc that you named in step 3 to Devices.pyc
11: Restart Live (The default mappings should now be in place again)


Adapting your new mapping to your needs:
You can adapt the supplied community mapping to your specific need quite easily. How this is achieved is explained here in metastatiks second post:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=198704&start=75

If you have any questions or suggestions you can also post in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=55&t=198946&p=1562395#p1562395

Please join us there :-)
Disclaimer: Everything you do with the community mapping, you do on your own risk, we are not liable for any damage that may occur!

To the Ableton employee reading this:
This community mapping of Lives devices in Push enhances in our opinion their and its usefulness immensely. Every user of this mapping is already a paying customer for at least one of your products (Push). So please don't do anything on purpose to break this method.
In case you find that this mapping is indeed better than the default mapping you supplied, feel free to use it for future up-dates as you wish, no need to ask!


Notes for some of the device mappings:

EQ8: We tried to have every conceivable combination mapped. The first banks are dedicated to Stereo processing, while the later ones are for Mid/Side and Left/Right. Unfortunately it is not possible to assign the switch between Stereo and Mid/Side-Left/Right. You will need to use the mouse for that. BandListen is also not assignable.

Glue Compressor: It was note possible to assign the "listen to side chain only" toggle in Glue like we could in Lives compressor.

Analog/Operator/Sampler:
We made extensive mappings with all useful combinations of parameters we could think of. General controls are usually on the first banks, while relational controls (e.g. all Attacks of all available envelopes) are in the later banks.

Operator: Because of a bug in Live, we were not able to assign all Shaper/Drive parameters (For some reason the API outputs them as identical names...).

Sampler:This is not a bug, and it is therefore much harder to understand how one could think that it is useful to make ALL the controls of the LFOs 2 and 3, as well as the Aux Envelope available, but NOT their modulation targets or even the modulation amounts!!! Hopefully this will be changed in the future!

Known issues:
Some small devices don't display the correct bank names (you can access them though, they are just named Bank1….etc.). We don't understand yet why.

Valiumdupeuple
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Re: Live devices mapping in Push:Community mapping is done! :)

Post by Valiumdupeuple » Wed Oct 30, 2013 10:23 pm

Congrats !!! :mrgreen:

Some banks could have used more clear or simple names, though. Some are kind of cumbersome.
But, you did a fantastic job.
A big thousand 808 claps to you.

TomViolenz
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Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:19 pm

Re: Live devices mapping in Push:Community mapping is done! :)

Post by TomViolenz » Wed Oct 30, 2013 10:34 pm

Valiumdupeuple wrote:Congrats !!! :mrgreen:

Some banks could have used more clear or simple names, though. Some are kind of cumbersome.
But, you did a fantastic job.
A big thousand 808 claps to you.
I tried that as far as I could but 8 characters is really not a lot to work with, if you want to get any useful information across. (See the overview file for the names I originally intended to use.)
So I maximized for information content.
Thanks for the claps :-)

Valiumdupeuple
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Re: Live devices mapping in Push:Community mapping is done! :)

Post by Valiumdupeuple » Wed Oct 30, 2013 11:44 pm

For example, things like "Osc A", "Env A"... for Operator are enough informations, and much better on the eye.
But you evil hackers must have spider eyes, and as everything is well explained here, anybody can easily modify to personal preferences, so...

tedlogan
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Re: Live devices mapping in Push:Community mapping is done! :)

Post by tedlogan » Wed Oct 30, 2013 11:59 pm

Valium, have you checked out this latest version? The bank names have all been simplified, and funnily enough, oscillator a, for example, displays now as Osc A etc. It's all now as clear as can be, just as you suggested in a PM to me a few days ago. I hope it proves useful.

TomViolenz
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Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:19 pm

Re: Live devices mapping in Push:Community mapping is done! :)

Post by TomViolenz » Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:10 am

Valiumdupeuple wrote:For example, things like "Osc A", "Env A"... for Operator are enough informations, and much better on the eye.
But you evil hackers must have spider eyes, and as everything is well explained here, anybody can easily modify to personal preferences, so...
Come on, you had suggested changing the bank names already when we were still changing the mappings. Did you think we ignored your advice? ;-)
The names now might not be what everyone would choose, but I specifically adapted them to the 8 character limit. And we appreciate that you had pointed it out to us, because before that, we had not considered it. This is the reason why your prerelease version of the code, is not so great yet.

Valiumdupeuple
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Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 12:36 pm
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Re: Live devices mapping in Push:Community mapping is done! :)

Post by Valiumdupeuple » Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:28 pm

Oh, my apologize guys, I haven't checked the release version yet.
:roll:

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