Annoying automation recording in arangement view

[TomViolenz]

that was in like 2008 though to be fair!

Ah, then I would assume they have solved that issue now. (I don't think anyone would keep using it otherwise)
From what I hear, Cubase is a quality program, but with a traditional workflow.

[shipwreck]

Essentially I encountered the problem because I had a friend in the studio with me and was trying to multitask. He was jamming around on my midi controller playing softsynth and the resulting performance is bieng recorded into arangement. To get a tempo for him to jam too I programmed a midi clip doing straight 4 on the floor kick drum. The kick sound is bieng generated by an operator preset I had been messing around with. So I tried to tweak the parameters of operator to improve the sound of the kick AS HE WAS PLAYING. This I could multitaks, work on the sound while hes recording. The problem is after everything was done my intent was to keep the sound of the kick after everything was done. Instead everything I tweeked was automated, were talking maybe 10 parameters or so. If I delete the automation I loose all my work. I had to note the state of each parameter at the end of the recorded automation, delete the automation for each parameter and re-input it manually.

Alright I completely understand your problem now. I tried your exact situation and found the same difficulty; no matter your settings it will record automation into arrangement from session if you change a parameter during recording. To my knowledge there is no way around that, but I do have a solution for your end problem. So you want the parameters to be un-automated, and stay set to the last value you moved the parameter to while recording to arrangement. Once recorded you can right/ctrl+click on the automated parameters and select "delete automation", in my testing, doing so will actually snap them to the end point of their automated settings and remove any automation. I hope that works the same for you, cheers!

[shipwreck]

Thanks for trying to help

I was aware I could do this though, and find those solutions totally inadequate. The problem with 1: I want to feel free to play around in the instrument and not remember every dial I moved (which I would have to do in order to enter the new automation).
and 2: entering a new chain for any change I might make is just as unfree as solution 1: with the added downside of more CPU use.
The obvious thing is to add the break points for each parameter in the instrument manually, but there are a LOT of parameters in most instruments. I was thinking maybe adding clyphx snap clips, but I don't know if you can record them into Arrangement and even if, then I would need an extra track for my snap clips for all the instruments I use. That's very cumbersome and also limits my freedom.
And all this just because Live doesn't actually record in Arrangement the state of each parameter. I have no idea why Ableton would do it like this. An oversight?!

No problem. I don't believe this is an oversight on Ableton's part, I think it has to do with the basic workflow of envelopes in Live. Live differs from other DAW's largely in it's Session view; automation in a clip defines the value of a parameter, and once automation for a parameter is enabled you cannot change that permanently without re-writing automation for every clip. This would not be as much of an issue if Live was constrained to linear changes (Arrangment view), but that's not the case. If automation was written for every parameter in a clip, everytime you changed a parameter without recording the "Re-Enable Automation" button would illuminate because the change hasn't been recorded. Say you wanted to change the filter cutoff on an instrument; if breakpoints we're created on every clip, you would have to re-record that change in every single one.

That being said, I understand your point and can see how this may be frustrating in your work flow. I think in your case the best solution would be to record your changes while you're finding your new settings from clip to clip.

[TomViolenz]

I totally see it for session view.
I don't understand not setting breakpoints for all parameters in Arrangement view when recording though!
At least make it an option, if it serves a purpose I overlooked.

[f.m.]

Hi! I'm having the same problem in a different situation. I need to record audio in a track (armed) while I move the controls of another tracks (not armed). Then, later in the piece I have to go back to the begining and playback what I have recorded, while I keep moving the controls in the other tracks. So, the first "pass" have recorded automation in the tracks I don't want to record, and I don't have time to delete each automation one by one.

I just want to record audio in one track, I don't want the automation to be recorded! Is there any way?

By the way, I'm in session view and Live 8

Thanks for your help

[shipwreck]

Hi! I'm having the same problem in a different situation. I need to record audio in a track (armed) while I move the controls of another tracks (not armed). Then, later in the piece I have to go back to the begining and playback what I have recorded, while I keep moving the controls in the other tracks. So, the first "pass" have recorded automation in the tracks I don't want to record, and I don't have time to delete each automation one by one.

I just want to record audio in one track, I don't want the automation to be recorded! Is there any way?

By the way, I'm in session view and Live 8

Thanks for your help

Hey man, so you're trying to record from Session View to Automation View right? If you are, Live will always track the automation you've recorded from Session to Automation. If you're staying in Session View, Live 9 has a feature in the preferences that allows you to select recording Session Automation in either "All Tracks" or "Armed Tracks" which would allow you to record new audio in to Session View while tweaking the other unarmed tracks without writing any automation.

In your case, Live 8 doesn't have the ability to record automation in Session View so that option is not in the preferences. You can however record audio into a clip in Session View and tweak all the other unarmed tracks without recording automation, so long as the global record button is not enabled.

I hope that helps, if not let me know!

[f.m.]

Thanks for your help. It is a bit hard to explain... I want to record AUDIO, but not automation at all. I tried to record as clips, but I have to respect the silences between the audio parts I have recorded... So the only way i find is record it as an arrangement, go back to 0.0.0 and play, but thats where I find my automation recorded in th other tracks...
Thank you again, I hope I have explained it better

[TomViolenz]

Thanks for your help. It is a bit hard to explain... I want to record AUDIO, but not automation at all. I tried to record as clips, but I have to respect the silences between the audio parts I have recorded... So the only way i find is record it as an arrangement, go back to 0.0.0 and play, but thats where I find my automation recorded in th other tracks...
Thank you again, I hope I have explained it better

Could it be that you are just not using scenes in session view correctly? If you need silence of one track, just make a new scene, where this track is not playing.
Or am I misunderstanding something about your situation?

[f.m.]

That's why I said that it's hard to explain... It is a live performance with electronics, so, I have to record e.g. 30 seconds, then she keeps playing but I have not to record for 25 seconds, and then record again for another 45 seconds. Then in a certain point of the score I have to playback this parts, 30 seconds of music, 25 seconds of silence and 45 seconds of music. It is a live performance, so the times always change. I do it arming and unarming the tracks. I arm the tracks in the parts I want to record, but I am recording all the time, thats why Live records all the automation in the other tracks (these tracks are for controlling some delays and effects in real time).

Everything is ok if I record it as an arrangement, I go back to 0.0.0 and there are my recordings ready to be played mantaining the silences, but there is also this stupid automation I have recorded in the other tracks

I hope it's getting clear...

This is the piece (I'm not sure if it helps...):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xy8Ozl2AF7o

[Dragonbreath]

Hi FM, if you record in arrangement view in Live 8, itwill record ALL automation. There is no way around it. Its all or nothing. You can record in session view and in Live 8 automation will NEVER be recorded. So if you want to record something without automation would be better done from the session view.

Live 9 is very different in terms of automation. Session view automation is now working and is pretty cool. I still have issues with arrangement view automation and is the reason for this thread.

I need to send support and email try and figure this out in more details.

[f.m.]

Hi Dragonbreath, thanks! The solution I have found is recording as you say in session view but recording one track from another track post mixer, so I can record when I have to, and then turn down my source track while I keep recording, so I can keep my silences and music parts in the same clip. And no record automation at all, which was my final goal... Thanks everybody for your help, it really helped!

[Dragonbreath]

Great F.M.! Glad I was able to help you find a solution

[Valiumdupeuple]

I actually have another thing that annoys me about automation recording in general and that is that it only records the parameters I changed while recording. All the parameters I didn't change while recording should at least get a start and an end break point, so that if I play with those parameters afterwards this recorded piece will still sound as it did when I recorded it. The way it is, the recording doesn't actually mean permanently recorded, because changing other parameters than automated ones leaves no record of the change. I assume there is no workaround I overlooked? (No printing to audio is not what I mean)

(about Arrangement automation) Before L9 it was not the case, and IMHO it was better. I've talked about this during the beta phase on the dedicated forum, and sent emails to the ableton support... but apparently no one felt concern about this, and it surprised me a lot.

[TomViolenz]

I actually have another thing that annoys me about automation recording in general and that is that it only records the parameters I changed while recording. All the parameters I didn't change while recording should at least get a start and an end break point, so that if I play with those parameters afterwards this recorded piece will still sound as it did when I recorded it. The way it is, the recording doesn't actually mean permanently recorded, because changing other parameters than automated ones leaves no record of the change. I assume there is no workaround I overlooked? (No printing to audio is not what I mean)

(about Arrangement automation) Before L9 it was not the case, and IMHO it was better. I've talked about this during the beta phase on the dedicated forum, and sent emails to the ableton support... but apparently no one felt concern about this, and it surprised me a lot.

Ah, so I'm not the only one annoyed by this! I think this should at least be a right click option to choose from while recording.
We shouldn't need workarounds for this!

[f.m.]

I think this should at least be a right click option to choose from while recording.
We shouldn't need workarounds for this!

Totally agree