MPC note repeat

ebenhero · Post by **ebenhero** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 3:59 am

The thing I miss most about the MPC 2000 I got rid of two years ago is the note repeat button. I loved the way you could set the timing and swing and get that perfectly off-kilter timing on snares, etc. Is there anyway to simulate this using Live, +/- plugins? Thanks in advance ...

jasefos · Post by **jasefos** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 4:18 am

ebenhero wrote:The thing I miss most about the MPC 2000 I got rid of two years ago is the note repeat button. I loved the way you could set the timing and swing and get that perfectly off-kilter timing on snares, etc. Is there anyway to simulate this using Live, +/- plugins? Thanks in advance ...

Experiment with Live5's Arpeggiator MIDI plugin (of course this will only work in the context of virtual synths inserted on MIDI tracks). Live's Arp hooks in nicely to Live's Swing functions also.

You could assign a QWERTY/MIDI key to the Arp plugins' Bypass control to give you similar pseudo MPC-Style Note Repeat.

Just a thought.

Cheers

leisuremuffin · Post by **leisuremuffin** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 7:46 pm

yeah, man i hear ya. One of the reasons i've kept my mpc.

Can sort of do it with the arp, as jasefos says, however, you still won't get that great pressure sensitivity thing.

.lm.

Machinate · Post by **Machinate** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 8:10 pm

leisuremuffin wrote:Can sort of do it with the arp, as jasefos says, however, you still won't get that great pressure sensitivity thing.

FWIW, you can assign the pressure sensing of the triggerFinger to the VelocityTarget of the arp - and yeah, you can get really weird cut-up-style repeats with it as well, I've worked with retrigger set to 1/8, 1 repeat and free, set to 120ms - sounded really funky, actually.

leisuremuffin · Post by **leisuremuffin** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 8:53 pm

DAmn. might have to get a trigger finger.

.lm.

ebenhero · Post by **ebenhero** » Sun Aug 07, 2005 1:03 am

Thanks for the suggestions. I'm still sitting with Live 4: sounds like another reason to upgrade.

FaX-01 · Post by **FaX-01** » Sun Aug 07, 2005 3:44 am

Technically Note repeat is nothing more than a simple PPQN divisor with retrigger.
For example a 1/4 note at a note repaeat of 4 yeilds a gate divide of 1/16 per 1/4 note pulse or a trigger of 4 16ths' in the space of a 1/4 note tick.
The trick here is too work out the current note resolution.
Then decide how many notes you either wish to repeat at that resolution of repeat within the space of that step.

4 example.
A 1/16 step grid yield per 16th step a note/gate divisor of the following.

1/16 = 2 * 1/32nd note beat repeats
1/16 = 4 * 1/64 note beat repeats
1/16 = 8 * 1/128 note beat repeats etc etc ...

Remember that all clock divisors increase exponential at all times ie: if in this instance 1/16 is the base clock duration then

1/16=1
1/32=2
1/64=4
1/128=8
1/256=16

And so on and so forth.

So simple use the CRTL / 1 , 2 , or 3 options for grid devisors.
Then pencil in the number of flams / repeats needed.
It is far more flexible for several reasons.

1.You have full vellocity control over each step entered.
2.full region zone and independent quantize control per group of steps.
3.surgical like precision in execution of this style of beat programming.

I have been beat programming for years on hardware.
The MPC's only have a 96PPQN note/clock resolution .
Live has a far Higher PPQN and will allow for all sorts of multi divisor drills and the like in triplets etc also.
I tend to avoid audio loops unless they've been sliced and resequenced.
Prefering most of the time to program from scratch / render to audio and use manual cut and paste techniques + clip consolidation as my prefered method of beat creation.

If you develop your skills well enough I guarantee you that most of those Autechre-esque and SqPusher/Aphex style drill'n'bass beats and the like are easier than you think to program from scratch.

Now I tend to compose these days more as a form of mental and physical therepy to help me cope with day to day health issues.
So doing music for money and or for other peoples approval is not high on my agenda.

That said I guarantee you that Rikhyray ( a user on this forum) would be more than willing to vouch for my prowess at programming highly complex beats using nothing more than midi data.

I would personally avoid the arp based solution myself and go for a more intricate and a dynamic programmed manual technique as mentioned above.
It is harder work but I guarantee you the results will be superior in the long run with enough practice.

Please note though that I've been working with hardware since 89.
So I have had ALOT of practice.
No matter how crude the midi tools seem in LIVE there are enough there to get you buy.
That said P5 V2 has a much better grid/step mode.
Which allows you to program the meat of the groove on a strict 16th grid and then switch to "free mode" and enter all other parts at any note resolution around those foothold/fundamental beat accents.
Live is more than enough to get you going none the less.
I would also suggest learning to read drum tabs and programming rythms based on realworld drumming first to give you a better idea of how a solid groove can be constructed with seemingly minimal parts.
Hope that helps you some.

leisuremuffin · Post by **leisuremuffin** » Sun Aug 07, 2005 4:08 am

uhhhhhm, yeah, but the fun of the MPC feature is that it's immeadiate. When i used to perform with a band with the MPC i would hold down the song structure by juggling sequences and then have little break down sections where i would fly in note repeat with changing time divisor and note variation slider. A lot of fun, and easy to improv with.

I like step sequencing too, when i started out in electronic music i did a lot of step sequencing using performer (before it had audio and became digital performer). And i still do sometimes, but it's harder to do in live cause you can't step record with a midi controller, y'know, set step lengh then press keys to write.

btw, never had a problem with the restriction of 96ticks on the MPC. Certainly didn't keep me from using triplets. Couldn't get those reallllllly fast zippers. but those sort of things i would just sample and use as one shots anyway...

.lm.

jasefos · Post by **jasefos** » Sun Aug 07, 2005 4:17 am

FaX-01 wrote:Technically Note repeat is nothing more than a simple PPQN divisor with retrigger.
.... .

Great post FaX-01.

This is more of a "post" approach rather than the realtime approach I suggested earlier however, agreed, it is a superior method allowing greater control and precision. I love the fact that in Live straight MIDI Grids are quite flexible allowing one to keep "zooming in" for finer and finer meter divisions.

Another approach ...
For audio clips (in a realtime performance) one could use the Session View Clip's Launch Mode set to "Repeat" instead of Trigger.

Cheers

eldar · Post by **eldar** » Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:14 am

http://www.kvraudio.com/get/1129.html

edit: "MAKE A MIDI TRACK LET THE ARP BE THE OUTPUT, MAKE ANOTHER MIDI TRACK LET THE ARP BE THE INPUT AND YOUR VSTI BE THE OUT. Hold down a key and..."

taken from this thread:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... ote+repeat

Machinate · Post by **Machinate** » Sun Aug 07, 2005 8:24 am

Fax,

FaX-01 wrote:That said P5 V2 has a much better grid/step mode.
Which allows you to program the meat of the groove on a strict 16th grid and then switch to "free mode" and enter all other parts at any note resolution around those foothold/fundamental beat accents.

Please elaborate a bit on this - it sounds a lot like just turning off the grid in live?!?

louZ · Post by **louZ** » Sun Aug 07, 2005 11:32 am

ebenhero wrote:Thanks for the suggestions. I'm still sitting with Live 4: sounds like another reason to upgrade.

The Trigger Finger video on the m-audio website shows how to do beat repeat with Trigger Finger and Live 4.

FaX-01 · Post by **FaX-01** » Sun Aug 07, 2005 1:13 pm

Machinate wrote:Fax,
FaX-01 wrote:That said P5 V2 has a much better grid/step mode.
Which allows you to program the meat of the groove on a strict 16th grid and then switch to "free mode" and enter all other parts at any note resolution around those foothold/fundamental beat accents.
Please elaborate a bit on this - it sounds a lot like just turning off the grid in live?!?

Step mode defaults to 16th's only.
And you specify a sequnce by a number of steps not bars.
So you can have 32 steps looping on 1 track
79 looping on another
8 steps looping on another all in sync

It also shows the pencil lanes drum pads kick/snare/hat/etc as mapped out by the vst in use.
You can also tie steps as needed also if needs be.
Hit FREE as the sequnce is running and them any other embellishment's can be added between 1/4 down to 1/128th plus triplets.
With full pencil zoning and straight / grid / groove / swing quantise added to any segment / percussion lane etc of that sequence.
You can also "steal grooves" from acidised .wav files and use them for groove templates to apply to any penciled/region area of said percussive sequence.
It's similar but faster and far more intuitive.
Also using oddly metered or stepped sequnces against each other on separte tracks yields some fantastic polyrythmic sequences you wouldn't get other wise working to a fixed grid/bar length for each part.
For example you can set up pseudo 7/4 against 4/4 rythmic parts for example and some very clever interplay of mono/polysynth lines also before even touching the MFX and other tricks possible.
I also have the option of chaining multi time signatured rythmic parts and rewiring them into Live for further use.
I do alot of rythm programming in P5 for this reason.
Multi timesignatured + Multi-metered tempo work all in sync to the overall compositional panes/grid in arranger view.
If I start adding MFX + Arp options also I have al sorts of killer options.
Still totally love LIVE though

.
P5 & Live are actually a very good mix IMHO.

Machinate · Post by **Machinate** » Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:21 pm

Dude, I'm really intruiged, esp. since I love poly-rhythms - however I have no problems whatsoever doing them in live?!?

FaX-01 wrote:Step mode defaults to 16th's only.

doesn't it do that in live as well?

FaX-01 wrote:And you specify a sequnce by a number of steps not bars. So you can have 32 steps looping on 1 track
79 looping on another
8 steps looping on another all in sync

What, like the 1.1.2, where the 2 represents the 16th notes?

FaX-01 wrote: It also shows the pencil lanes drum pads kick/snare/hat/etc as mapped out by the vst in use.

what, like impulse does? labels the note?

FaX-01 wrote: You can also tie steps as needed also if needs be.
Hit FREE as the sequnce is running and them any other embellishment's can be added between 1/4 down to 1/128th plus triplets.
With full pencil zoning and straight / grid / groove / swing quantise added to any segment / percussion lane etc of that sequence.

okay, THIS is more like it - like the hyperEditor in Logic? Aka the Glitchmeister! You could do all sorts of weird shuffling grumpy beats - You could even draw out note delays across a snare line in beat.

but wrt the polyrhythms I'm not sure we're even talking about the same thing

ebenhero · Post by **ebenhero** » Mon Aug 08, 2005 4:52 am

Can anyone recommend an arpeggiator plug-in for Mac that I can experiment with until I'm able to save the money for the upgrade to Live 5? I'm curious to see whether an arpeggiator can perform the note repeat. Cheers

MPC note repeat

MPC note repeat

Re: MPC note repeat