Weird 2013 Macbook Retina Latency Issue

[Machinesworking]

I doubt that has anything to do with it. It that were the case, everyone who updated their machines to Mavericks would be experiencing these issues. It has something to do with these new machines, what I don't know.

Never write off a possible problem because you thin it isn't one. I once had a Logitech mouse driver mess only with Ableton Lives ability to send proper MIDI Beat Clock messages. Logic wasn't affected.
Actually it's very, very likely that this is the culprit! as Live isn't written to use the CPU saving functions of Mavericks, so it would be a great idea to turn it off. Go into your applications folder and select Live then either right click or hit command and I (for the get info function), then you will see under General a few check boxes, one is "Prevent App Nap". By default this is off, so Live will be subject to the whims of the OS. Try checking this box restarting, then messing with Live and see if the same problems arise, it's very possible this is your issue.

[Moosebear]

if you are using an external audio interface, it's a non-issue.

if you are not doing real-time tracking/overdubbing with the onboard audio, it's not an issue.

Thanks Fishmonkey. I do use the onboard audio, and have been doing for years with a USB mic for vocals. Works great, I'd rather not fuss with another box on my desk. Works fine in my 2008 Imac, and on various PC's. That's what's making me hesitate. I've always thought that Macs had great latency "out of the box". If I have to goof around with it to get low latency I'd rather just buy a windows lappy... for which I have other software. I guess. Not sure...

[pencilrocket]

Aren't there Logic users reporting same issue in Gearslutz?

[hipdeejay]

Never write off a possible problem because you thin it isn't one. I once had a Logitech mouse driver mess only with Ableton Lives ability to send proper MIDI Beat Clock messages. Logic wasn't affected.
Actually it's very, very likely that this is the culprit! as Live isn't written to use the CPU saving functions of Mavericks, so it would be a great idea to turn it off. Go into your applications folder and select Live then either right click or hit command and I (for the get info function), then you will see under General a few check boxes, one is "Prevent App Nap". By default this is off, so Live will be subject to the whims of the OS. Try checking this box restarting, then messing with Live and see if the same problems arise, it's very possible this is your issue.

I'm not writing anything off. It's definitely not Mavericks alone causing it. I tested this on last year's model with Mavericks and it has extremely low latency, like it should. App nap was never on to begin with, you can turn it off in system preferences.

It's a known problem with this new model's core audio. See the gearslutz thread that was linked. This problem is present in Ableton as well as Logic on all these new machines. It's a confirmed issue with Core Audio and these new machines, we're hoping Apple issues a fix for it soon.

[Machinesworking]

App nap was never on to begin with, you can turn it off in system preferences.

You cannot turn off App Nap globally in System preferences. It must be done at the Application level, or in Terminal.
http://www.tekrevue.com/tip/disable-app ... mavericks/
It's possible that it's not your problem for sure, but it's also possible that it is. Energy saving features are tied sometimes into chipsets, and certain chips will behave much worse with the OS and applications. At one point the Santa Rosa chip in the 07 MacBooks had an issue with glitch's because of power down type features, these vanished with an OS update. In this case it's possible that a simple disabling of the feature at the application level will do something.

[Machinesworking]

Plus, this isn't what I would call good QA work. If the latency in the old machine is at less than 2ms at 32 samples, but sounds like shit then it's not a good measurement point for comparing two laptops. Your buffer size on your old laptop where you were comfortable working in is. If the latency is unbearably high at the same working buffer setting then it's an issue.
That, and the real clincher, if during a Live Set CPU consumption on your new machine is worse than the old one, then I could see reason for grief, but simply being annoyed by tests done at unusably low settings, (basically not done in working conditions), as a reason for your frustration is why you've managed to alienate people. You've replied back to that line of inquiry with a logic flaw, that if it's high at 32 samples then it will be too high at working conditions, this isn't at all necessarily true.

This is why I'm a fan of doing stress tests on machines instead of tests that aren't related to performing.

[pencilrocket]

I was told it was due to a new controller that they are using and that they don't think it will be anything they can fix as its on the hardware side not software.

- Gearslutz forum

[lincolnkid]

I reported this to Apple a few weeks ago, and eventually had it escalated. Got back a positive response today: "...core audio group has come back to me and have said there will be a software update to address this issue in the future. No date specified for this though."

[mots]

I reported this to Apple a few weeks ago, and eventually had it escalated. Got back a positive response today: "...core audio group has come back to me and have said there will be a software update to address this issue in the future. No date specified for this though."

congrats, having these dinosaur to move and fix a bug is not easy !

[hipdeejay]

Plus, this isn't what I would call good QA work. If the latency in the old machine is at less than 2ms at 32 samples, but sounds like shit then it's not a good measurement point for comparing two laptops. Your buffer size on your old laptop where you were comfortable working in is. If the latency is unbearably high at the same working buffer setting then it's an issue.
That, and the real clincher, if during a Live Set CPU consumption on your new machine is worse than the old one, then I could see reason for grief, but simply being annoyed by tests done at unusably low settings, (basically not done in working conditions), as a reason for your frustration is why you've managed to alienate people. You've replied back to that line of inquiry with a logic flaw, that if it's high at 32 samples then it will be too high at working conditions, this isn't at all necessarily true.

This is why I'm a fan of doing stress tests on machines instead of tests that aren't related to performing.

App Nap is off either way, I already checked. And you're not really understanding, did you read the Gearslutz thread? Under the exact same settings, these new machines have much higher latency than any older models. These are under working conditions. The latency is high, regardless of your buffer settings. Compared to any older machine.

The latency IS unbearably high at the same working buffer settings. That's the problem.

There's no point in arguing it. Apple knows about these issues and are working on a fix.

[yantri]

The increased latency issue with the new 2013 macbook pros is specifically with the speakers on the laptop, and not the headphones or any external audio device. Sounds weird, but you can test this by plugging in your headphones and watch the latency drop in realtime by 50%. I had this same issue, but don't really use the laptop speakers with ableton, so I'm not too concerned.

[pencilrocket]

The sound is no longer digital at the speaker.... How can analog signal comunicate with digital signal...?

[Moosebear]

Can anyone say then, with headphones plugged in, core audio will have workable latency, correct? I'd love to get a nw MBP Retina (want hi-res), but I record vocals in Live 9 with a USB mic. I need low latency for rhythmic precision, I'm very sensitive to that. I don't want an external interface, I've done great audio without one for years.

If the Haswell MBP is going to cause probs, I might bite the bullet and buy a refurbished non-haswell one, or maybe a Haswell Air, they're now sold refurb.

Any thoughts?

[pedx1ng]

Can anyone say then, with headphones plugged in, core audio will have workable latency, correct? I'd love to get a nw MBP Retina (want hi-res), but I record vocals in Live 9 with a USB mic. I need low latency for rhythmic precision, I'm very sensitive to that. I don't want an external interface, I've done great audio without one for years.

I have Retina, 15-inch, Late 2013. Here is my latency:

Core audio built-in, 256 samples:
17.9 total latency using built-in speakers
8.21 total latency with headphones plugged in

Komplete Audio 6, 256 samples:
7.85 total latency

Hope that helps.

[Moosebear]

Thanks Pedx1ng, I guess that sounds all right. Can you... or anyone tell me... running Live with 10-20 tracks of audio recorded direct with a USB mic... is a 256 sample rate going to be okay?

I mean, I think 8ms latency is fine, but am I going to be limited using core audio for my purposes, if I have to bring the buffer there? Or is that normal?

I almost bit the bullet and got an early 2013 Retina, but there are no hi-end ones in the refurb store now. (And I'd rather get a new Haswell one with better battery life and better SSD, etc.)