I Don't understand the Issues with Obamacare

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re:dream
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Re: I Don't understand the Issues with Obamacare

Post by re:dream » Mon Nov 25, 2013 8:17 pm

Funk N. Furter wrote:
"South Africa, the continent’s biggest economy, is the second most unequal country in the world. "

Yikes. Only the second most?

All these years I thought we were the most unequal.

So there's actually a place on the planet where the gap between the rich and the poor is worse than us?

Boggles the mind 8O :(

Galt
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Re: I Don't understand the Issues with Obamacare

Post by Galt » Mon Nov 25, 2013 8:19 pm

The Finn wrote:Yikes. Only the second most?

All these years I thought we were the most unequal.

So there's actually a place on the planet where the gap between the rich and the poor is worse than us?

Boggles the mind 8O :(
Boggles Funken's arse.

re:dream
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Re: I Don't understand the Issues with Obamacare

Post by re:dream » Mon Nov 25, 2013 8:20 pm


Galt
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Re: I Don't understand the Issues with Obamacare

Post by Galt » Mon Nov 25, 2013 8:24 pm

You're the one prostituting infant death. :roll: :|

regretfullySaid
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Re: I Don't understand the Issues with Obamacare

Post by regretfullySaid » Mon Nov 25, 2013 8:30 pm

Funk N. Furter wrote:
shadx312 wrote:Well put.

I'm crawed(?) with
There is enough food in the world to feed everyone already. Imagine you are sitting at the table with a few others. Two are dying of hunger, one is stuffing his face until he is ill, and one is throwing food away. Would you not pass food to the two who are hungry?
Something needs to be done with the guys overstuffing and throwing food away when they have, right in front of them no less, people who could use the food. I'm talking about punishment to the point of brainwashing, actually brainwashing compassion and empathy into those people, so they're conditioned to feel like they're being electrocuted if they overstuff or throw away and instead of giving it to someone who needs it more than them.
So until that happens, don't just give the food to the poor, but whack the guys overeating and wasting over the head with a 2x4, because they're still going to be creating more waste which in turn leaves more hungry hungry.
You missed the point. It was not supposed to be taken literally, it was meant figuratively.
Um, yeah. I guess you missed the point, and what I meant was literal. This, even http://motherboard.vice.com/blog/online ... on-markets
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regretfullySaid
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Re: I Don't understand the Issues with Obamacare

Post by regretfullySaid » Mon Nov 25, 2013 9:13 pm

Arrest for what? I never said I'd play.

Calling it terrorism is a thin line.

Is it really a moral high ground to oppose killing someone who proactively participates in killing millions?

You really think those guys are going to decide at some moment, "Damn, what I've been doing is wrong, I'm should stop."
And if they did, it would take a hell of a lot from them to attempt at making the world a better place after that.

The cause to make it stop. Or is this more about maintaining a positive reputation to some ideology?
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regretfullySaid
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Re: I Don't understand the Issues with Obamacare

Post by regretfullySaid » Mon Nov 25, 2013 9:44 pm

Well, it's a nice thought anyway. Just some solid action to get rid of the "problems", even if just in the short term. Apparently asking nicely doesn't work.
I don't think condoning it is stupid, however. If some guy puts a bullet in the head of someone with enough influence to drop rations on a starving country at any moment but decides to let them die instead, I think I'd be ok with it at least a little. You know we could've stopped world hunger decades ago. Think of how many days that is and the minimal amount of food it would take per day for that to not be a problem. But because of a few hundred (give or take) men in power, this is how it is. But perhaps my yes to simple quick fixes won't have such a long lasting positive result compared to your slow movements of trial-and-error.

If I did want to continue on that, what thread would you suggest? It's in regards specifically about class. If there wasn't a class structure, then maybe Trotsky's point would be moot, and if classless is anarchism, I'd like to at least think a healthy civilization under anarchism could work (a couple hundred years from now), but it's mostly a pipe dream, I admit.

Otherwise, back to the OP.
Last edited by regretfullySaid on Tue Nov 26, 2013 5:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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starving student
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Re: I Don't understand the Issues with Obamacare

Post by starving student » Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:23 pm

I actually agree that obamacare doesn't go far enough but thats another issue.

what I don't get is what would be so bad about letting people opt out if they wanted, is there anything about the affordable care act that would prevent it from working without the folks who don't want to participate?
isn't there more than enough people who want to participate for the program to work for just those people?
the republicans could do what they've been doing since they are satisfied with that couldn't they?

Machinesworking
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Re: I Don't understand the Issues with Obamacare

Post by Machinesworking » Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:17 am

Galt wrote:No, you're right; there are no great men, no mediocre men, we are all exactly the same. This is clearly the case. Nobody is smarter than anybody, nobody is more talented; nobody makes a better tuna sandwich, and all dudes have exactly the same length, thickness, shape and taste of cock. FACT.

:roll:
You simply don't get it, there all kinds of varying degrees of skill, it's not just Bill Gates and Steve Jobs types VS the most drug addled welfare recipient. Mostly people are good at their normal, 'not running a billion dollar a year company', job. They make decent food for you in the restaurant, they pick up your garbage, do your taxes and build a decent house. Your thinking is entirely black and white about people, and therefore completely inadequate. It's small minded.

Galt
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Re: I Don't understand the Issues with Obamacare

Post by Galt » Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:56 am

Machinesworking wrote:You simply don't get it, there all kinds of varying degrees of skill, it's not just Bill Gates and Steve Jobs types VS the most drug addled welfare recipient. Mostly people are good at their normal, 'not running a billion dollar a year company', job. They make decent food for you in the restaurant, they pick up your garbage, do your taxes and build a decent house. Your thinking is entirely black and white about people, and therefore completely inadequate. It's small minded.
You're still having a hard time with this whole reading thing, aren't you. Like I said "the few of us who are actually able and willing to do a good job end up supporting the remaining majority of talentless leeches. And this happens at all levels of society, from quarry workers to factory workers, to artists to industrialists."

You keep on trying to straw man me, fabricating excuses to attack my posts and call me small minded. This makes you a dishonest douche. Not quite a Funken-douche, but still a douche nonetheless.

[insert random joke about your tiny wee-wee here]

docprosper
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Re: I Don't understand the Issues with Obamacare

Post by docprosper » Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:23 am

The Finn wrote:
Funk N. Furter wrote:
"South Africa, the continent’s biggest economy, is the second most unequal country in the world. "

Yikes. Only the second most?

All these years I thought we were the most unequal.

So there's actually a place on the planet where the gap between the rich and the poor is worse than us?

Boggles the mind 8O :(
So what's the most unequal? Legitimately curious...
Funk N. Furter wrote:Post properly.
Ableton Live Suite | M4L | Powerbook | Launchpad | APC40 | Faderfox | 2x1200 | Xone:96 | ...
---> http://soundcloud.com/kilcraft

regretfullySaid
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Re: I Don't understand the Issues with Obamacare

Post by regretfullySaid » Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:26 am

Texas
:wink:
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re:dream
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Re: I Don't understand the Issues with Obamacare

Post by re:dream » Tue Nov 26, 2013 8:05 am

More seriously ... 8O

About inequality rankings - it actually depends a bit on which indicator you use.

Most people focus on income inequality; usually via something called the Gini coefficient. The higher your Gini, the more unequal you are.

But there are lots of different competing Gini calculations out there; and the scores vary wildly. The CIA, for instance, gives a very different Gini to South Africa than the World Bank does, and the UNDP gives another figure.

South Africa tops the league in some tables, not in others. For example, in the World Bank index, the Seychelles usually beats us. But Funk is right, we're usually among the very worst.

But income inequality is only a partial measure. It looks at people's cash flow coming in, not at their accumulated wealth. Gini coefficients for wealth are usually more extreme than those for income.

So, while South Africa's Gini is broadly comparable to, say, Brazil, our wealth inequality is more extreme: because while the income-poor in Brazil often have some other resources (e.g. land) poor people in South Africa don't.

So I am fairly confident that on any kind of aggregated inequality scale, we'd still be way worse than anyone. And don't talk to me about Texas. They're Sweden, compared to us 8O

I am not sure what this has to do with Obamacare, though; so I will end the digression here 8)

re:dream
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Re: I Don't understand the Issues with Obamacare

Post by re:dream » Tue Nov 26, 2013 8:07 am

Funk N. Furter wrote: I'm expecting a much fuller reply off you otherwise the only conclusion is that you are actually a troll.
Done.

I may very well still be a troll, though :mrgreen: .

re:dream
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Re: I Don't understand the Issues with Obamacare

Post by re:dream » Tue Nov 26, 2013 8:32 am

Funk N. Furter wrote:
The Finn wrote: I come across this all the time: photographs that I call 'poverty porn' -
Why the FUCK would you call it that?
Did you read the link? It discusses the issue fairly well
As I’ve come to believe, poverty porn, also known as development porn or even famine porn, is any type of media, be it written, photographed or filmed, which exploits the poor’s condition in order to generate the necessary sympathy for selling newspapers or increasing charitable donations or support for a given cause. Poverty porn is typically associated with black, poverty-stricken Africans, but can be found elsewhere. The subjects are overwhelming children, with the material usually characterized by images or descriptions of suffering, malnourished or otherwise helpless persons. The stereotype of poverty porn is the African child with a swollen belly, staring blankly into the camera, waiting for salvation.

The reason poverty porn is so pervasive is that it promotes a popular stereotype, one that has always existed in Western literature about Africa. Binyavanga Wainaina wrote a brilliant piece several years ago in Granta about this practice called “How to write about Africa:”

Among your characters you must always include The Starving African, who wanders the refugee camp nearly naked, and waits for the benevolence of the West. Her children have flies on their eyelids and pot bellies, and her breasts are flat and empty. She must look utterly helpless. She can have no past, no history; such diversions ruin the dramatic moment. Moans are good. She must never say anything about herself in the dialogue except to speak of her (unspeakable) suffering.
Personally I think such depictions of poor people demeans them: it deprives them of individuality and personality; they become blank, anonymous figures, merely serving to illustrate existing western stereotypes.

Check out that picture, for instance. As Galt asked - who is the person? Where are they? Do we even know what country they are in? Sure, you got it off a youtube video; but in that video, the image is used precisely in the way that Binyavana Wainana objects against. Google that image, and you will get upwards of 140 000 hits - but nowhere that I looked (I trawled through the first 40 hits or so) could I get any clue about who it is and where.

Why not? Because to the people who posted it, it doesn't matter. It's image-fodder. It makes a point. And they use it for all kinds of purposes - to serve in blanket arguments about poverty in Africa, to promote GMO maize - they don't care.

After 40 hits, I have up. I can't bear to look at that image. It distresses and horrifies me even to see it, and it horrifies me more to see the callous way in which people will make use of it without ever apparently wondering about the actual people it portrays.

:(


You know Funken, the funny thing is I don't even disagree with the basic point you were making. I actually do agree that the workings of capitalism make poverty and hunger in Africa worse.

But I hated the use of that image, and I still hate it, and I was making a plea for basic human respect and decency. You can take that thought aboard or not - it's your choice.

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