Traktor Style Cue Points For Djing in Ableton

[cambria1295]

I am looking at getting either ableton or tractor for djing. Both are great products from what I researched but I was leaning toward ableton because you can produce music on there also. I love how tractor is set up and you can use cue points to jump around in the song and remix it live.

When looking at ableton it seems to me that they do not really offer cue points. I read using wave markers, midi markers and stuff like that but it doesn't seem to be efficient. I even saw one guy divide the song into four banks. Have it play the song all the way through and each bank would be a cue point. Solved the problem but then that would take up so much space. Imagine for banks for even song you have. The cue points in the song is a major thing I would like to have when djing. Does anyone know of some solutions,? The lack of this may throw me over to tractor for djing purposes.
Thanks

[Da hand]

Cue points in Traktor = Splitting your song into multiple clips with different start points/loops in Ableton.

Works very well

[JuanSOLO]

DJing with Traktor is just way more fun to me.
I have both programs though.

Traktors midi editing preferences are light years ahead of Ableton, and will continue to be for a while.
So if you wanna use controllers, Traktor all the way.
If Traktor offered VST support, and some kind of midi clip recording, I would get really into Traktor.

If you're really set on producing, I say get Live lite, and Traktor.
Upgrade Live as you go.

but yeah, the best way to simulate cue points in Ableton, is making multiple clips of the same track, different start points.
Thinking about slaving over that process in Ableton vs a button press in Traktor, I choose Traktor.

[cambria1295]

DJing with Traktor is just way more fun to me.
I have both programs though.

Traktors midi editing preferences are light years ahead of Ableton, and will continue to be for a while.
So if you wanna use controllers, Traktor all the way.
If Traktor offered VST support, and some kind of midi clip recording, I would get really into Traktor.

If you're really set on producing, I say get Live lite, and Traktor.
Upgrade Live as you go.

but yeah, the best way to simulate cue points in Ableton, is making multiple clips of the same track, different start points.
Thinking about slaving over that process in Ableton vs a button press in Traktor, I choose Traktor.

Well i want to get into both producing and djing. I have been saving up for equipment for sometime now and researching and learning what i can on the side. Ableton is about to release 9 and there new push controller. Which I have been leaning towards. With this i can dj and produce. I hoping to kill two birds with one stone per say to save on money. Traktor looks sick and would love to use it but then I feel like I would have to go out and buy another controller to make the use of tractor simple and easy. Personally I wouldn't mind breaking down all my tracks and spending time setting it up but i feel like if you have the cue points in ableton set up into individual banks : does it take away from the efficiency because it does take up a great deal of space and feel like it would throw of the organization of the songs?

What is your take from using that process and how has it been holding up?

Just so you have a full understanding of what I would like to do. I would like to dj and remix songs live . I love how ean golden has tractor set up for freestyle and button mashing, but I am not really feeling his midi controllers. Hope this clarifies a little .
Thanks

[JuanSOLO]

You can emulate all of those things in Ableton, and it can be fun, but it's so much more work in Ableton.
If I am DJing and someone asks for a song I dont have but am familiar with,
I can download it,
pull it in Traktor
set my grid
set up cue points
all from an APC40 really fast.
Then work that song into the mix.

I can do that with Ableton too, but it takes way more effort, and lots of mouse clicks.
Push will work great with Traktor too, no doubt. No faders though.

If your feeling Ableton, DIVE IN.
Seriously, if you have no experience with Traktor, you wont have a reference of comparison.
Traktor is a DJ program though, and thats why it excels at DJing, especially in a live situation.
Ableton Live is a production program that is supposedly suited for Live performance and many have adopted it for DJing.

Another strange, yet nitch, option is getting Live with the Live 9 suite upgrade path, so you have M4L.
Buy Ms Pinky and use it in your Live set.
Ms Pinky can be kinda tricky, and it can be kind of great.

However, browsing music in Ableton sheesh .
It can be done, it's just not built with that in mind like Traktor is.

I used to use Ableton to DJ, I thought it felt boring, to prepared.
I started using Ms Pinky, and Live's session view was like a giant browser, sort of.
Cue Point loop points etc.
Plus extra tracks like a drumRack or synths.

Now I use Traktor when doing DJ gigs
I do use Ableton Live for performing as a 2 piece electronic act including Ms Pinky 2 turntables a controller plus outboard synths and fx.

I'd look at it this way.
Get what you want, MAKE it WORK.
Let the limitations produce creativity.

[cambria1295]

You can emulate all of those things in Ableton, and it can be fun, but it's so much more work in Ableton.
If I am DJing and someone asks for a song I dont have but am familiar with,
I can download it,
pull it in Traktor
set my grid
set up cue points
all from an APC40 really fast.
Then work that song into the mix.

I can do that with Ableton too, but it takes way more effort, and lots of mouse clicks.
Push will work great with Traktor too, no doubt. No faders though.

If your feeling Ableton, DIVE IN.
Seriously, if you have no experience with Traktor, you wont have a reference of comparison.
Traktor is a DJ program though, and thats why it excels at DJing, especially in a live situation.
Ableton Live is a production program that is supposedly suited for Live performance and many have adopted it for DJing.

Another strange, yet nitch, option is getting Live with the Live 9 suite upgrade path, so you have M4L.
Buy Ms Pinky and use it in your Live set.
Ms Pinky can be kinda tricky, and it can be kind of great.

However, browsing music in Ableton sheesh .
It can be done, it's just not built with that in mind like Traktor is.

I used to use Ableton to DJ, I thought it felt boring, to prepared.
I started using Ms Pinky, and Live's session view was like a giant browser, sort of.
Cue Point loop points etc.
Plus extra tracks like a drumRack or synths.

Now I use Traktor when doing DJ gigs
I do use Ableton Live for performing as a 2 piece electronic act including Ms Pinky 2 turntables a controller plus outboard synths and fx.

I'd look at it this way.
Get what you want, MAKE it WORK.
Let the limitations produce creativity.

Okay I will definitely check out what you recommended and will look in to ms. pinky. You do make a valid point Traktor is designed for djing and it will excel in doing so. Its a little bit to obvious that I forgot about that.

Can you give your thoughts and opinions on the setup i was thinking?
For my initial set up I was thinking of getting the push with live suite 9. For production purposes. I will need to get an audio interface if I want to produce, so mic inputs, keyboard, drum machine , and monitors or speakers.stuff like that. I do not know if the push is midi or usb but lets throw that in there. So I was thinking of getting an audio interface from Native Instruments because supposed to be top of the line product and when you purchase it you get the latest version of tractor, saving me a few bucks. I would love to be able to use the push with tractor so i do not have to buy anything else and keep the learning process minimized to one product, but for some reason that I do not know why. They have failed to put faders on the push controller so the whole djing part becomes a problem. I was thinking about trouble shooting this with a midi fighter pro. This has two faders that one i can reassign to hel dj and then the midi fighter can be used for button mashing and cue points, acapellas and stuff to that nature. and i would like to eventually get ni machine that i could throw in there too. I don't know how i plan on setting up push for djing but i feel like i can get it to work well.

[cambria1295]

Can anyone provide feedback and opinions on the setup I am trying to go for?
Thanks

[yur2die4]

I like the idea of the NI interface (hopefully with Traktor as either a light version, bundled, or at a major discount?).

As for faders, there are a few things to consider. 1. You might be able to find cheap ones just to start off with. 2. Who knows, maybe you'd prefer to use an audio based (non midi) mixer.

I love Ableton with a passion, but if you want flexibility with djing, you probably want to use Traktor. That mostly has to do with the ability to fly on and off a grid, and the magical ability to redefine the grid.

But with Ableton, a couple quick shortcuts for manipulating clips:
You can assign a button to the little clip status indicator which chooses and puts into view the currently playing clip.
When a clip is selected, you are able to punch in start, loop start, loop end points (can be mapped to midi, but it applies to any general clip that you have selected, not one specific one in any specific channel)
If you punch in a new clip start spot, you can ctrl+d to duplicate the clip. Or you can duplicate before hand.
Clip launch quantization can be futzed around with. It can get pretty fun but if you're not careful you can come out of your squabble ungracefully.

I just thought I'd through all that out there for your consideration.

[cambria1295]

I like the idea of the NI interface (hopefully with Traktor as either a light version, bundled, or at a major discount?).

As for faders, there are a few things to consider. 1. You might be able to find cheap ones just to start off with. 2. Who knows, maybe you'd prefer to use an audio based (non midi) mixer.

I love Ableton with a passion, but if you want flexibility with djing, you probably want to use Traktor. That mostly has to do with the ability to fly on and off a grid, and the magical ability to redefine the grid.

But with Ableton, a couple quick shortcuts for manipulating clips:
You can assign a button to the little clip status indicator which chooses and puts into view the currently playing clip.
When a clip is selected, you are able to punch in start, loop start, loop end points (can be mapped to midi, but it applies to any general clip that you have selected, not one specific one in any specific channel)
If you punch in a new clip start spot, you can ctrl+d to duplicate the clip. Or you can duplicate before hand.
Clip launch quantization can be futzed around with. It can get pretty fun but if you're not careful you can come out of your squabble ungracefully.

I just thought I'd through all that out there for your consideration.

Im a little confused on what you mean: "(hopefully with Traktor as either a light version, bundled, or at a major discount?). "

Great Idea did not think about using a mixer. That could add the main cross fader along with a few others that I may be able to throw effects on. Yea traktor is what I want to use for djing. and Ive read that i will be able to use push in tractor, i would just have to midi map everything. which i wouldn't mind and I'm sure they have templates. but the lack of a crossfader on the product i feel limits it so much. That why i was thinking of the setup posted above.

as for the clip launching I think I grasp what you mean. I found this tutorial online which is great [http://www.anthonyarroyodotcom.com/thea ... ue-points/] but it would take up a lot of space.

So if i do go to traktor of djing. How does one recommend me setting up a set up where i can use push in traktor. is what i stated above too much?

[yur2die4]

For Push, you'll pretty much just have to wait. First, for it to come out, second, either to try your hand at unique mapping, or letting various other wild folk to do it. I'm sure they'll come up with some clever ideas.

This moment though, it is really hard to tell. I don't know te specifics on the pad data. The touch strip. The other buttons. The on screen display. Etc etc

For the bundle thing, shop around. Try typing Traktor bundle to see if any stores sell it with anything. I don't know your plan. If you are going new or used or what.

Best of luck though! Now I'm going to check out that vid you linked

[cambria1295]

You're right lol, I'm so impatient sometimes. But hope the video helps!! If I'm not mistaken all his tutorials and stuff are free

[muthafunka]

Long-time Live and Traktor user. I tried djing with Live for a while but came back to Traktor. Not sure if this was because I grew up with vinyl but Traktor is just ...more like djing for me. If you can mix with cds/decks then you can do the same in Traktor with basically no set up - load a track, cue/listen, tweak pitch up/down and push/pull to get your beats lined up then mix. No warping, splitting etc and I just seem to spend less time gazing at the screen and more tweaking the 2 Faderfox controllers i use. You can of course set load, cue etc points and do all the grid thing but you can also play box-fresh untweaked tracks no problem. For me, the best of both worlds but YMMV.

[ze2be]

Traktors midi editing preferences are light years ahead of Ableton, and will continue to be for a while.
So if you wanna use controllers, Traktor all the way. .

That may be true, but I do not understand crap about its midi section as of right now, and I usually feel comfortable about midi programing. Like the Behringer BCR series, Korg nanos, Novations stuf etc, all easy peasy to custom map. But Traktor? Im not even able to get user made presets working for the X1 controller. What is foreign to me is the huge list of letters in the midi maping browser window. I have no idea what any of them do, and they all seem to have different functions! I was hoping, and naively thinking I would "get it" right out of the box, but no sir its like learning a sequencer from scratch all over again! Sorry for the hijack rant.. I have been through a ton of "pro" videos like the Olav Basoski ones, and most of the manual. I have learned almost all of the interface functions though. It took about 2 weeks for me to grasp.

That being said, I am now using Traktor for DJing exclusively, and its a hundred times better for that then Live! Im even considering using it for live sets, because of the 16 loop slots you can load in addition to the DJ decks. It even has a nice dedicated controller for those, the F1. Just to be able to load your own tracks as you go, instead of having to mouse around the Live browser, or having to fill up Session as a clunky psedo Browser, its so much more flexible and quick to load up tracks with Traktor as you go. And to ecco whats been said earlier: vstis and midi loops in Traktor would have rocked so dam hard! While hoping for that future, as for now im thinking about syncing Live to Traktor, so that I can play vst synths and midi clips along my own tracks, played from Traktor..

[Szuumm]

vstis and midi loops in Traktor would have rocked so dam hard!

I think NI want you to buy Maschine to do this...

[MAMBISA]

"You can assign a button to the little clip status indicator which chooses and puts into view the currently playing clip. "

When you say "clip status indicator," what do you mean? I can't find any reference in the manual, but that would be useful to bring the clip to the forefront right from my MIDI controller. THANKS!