hardware midi problem

leister · Post by **leister** » Sat Jan 11, 2014 3:15 pm

Hello I've a midi problem, I'm in contact with ableton support but maybe some one can hepl me...

after many test, my problem is
When I send midi note with midi CC thru an usb or fw400 midi interface , it's too much data at a time, if I send only midi note it's ok ...

I did the test both on pc and Imac with
as midi interface:
_esi m4u
_motu 828 mk2
_rme babyface

as midi instrument
_waldorf qrack
_jomox airbase

and without instrument

mac as midi master and pc as midi slave
pc as midi master mac as midi slave
each time with the esi and after with the 828 and or rme...

Each time the same problem, :
when I only send note it's ok, and when I send both mdi CC it's wrong...

The latest test I did is
The imac as master sending midi clock midi notes and midi CC thru IPmidi http://www.nerds.de/en/ipmidi.html to the pc Who send the midi notes and CC thru rme babyface to the airbase, and this time it works well.

So I've a question WTF?????

I'll will ask to ableton support if I can send the conversation on the forum...

Thanx everybody !!!

here is some video for example
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7Kt67 ... sp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7Kt67 ... sp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7Kt67 ... sp=sharing

leister · Post by **leister** » Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:57 pm

Nobody cann help me ?

Davo · Post by **Davo** » Mon Jan 13, 2014 5:08 am

I suggest that you refine your question (WTF?). Why do you say "its too much data at a time" or "when I send both mdi CC it's wrong...". What do you mean by wrong? As things stand no one can help you because you are not asking a coherent question.

leister · Post by **leister** » Mon Jan 13, 2014 9:03 am

Hello Davo,

As you may have guessed I'm French, and I do not have perfect English ...
Now to make it easier for me and more understandable for you I'm using google translate ...

Thank you for taking time to answer me, and tell me that what I write is incomprehensible ...

my problem is :
I have a midi track sending midi notes, everything works normally , but when I add control change modulation envelopes the tempo fluctuated exchange notes are not sent in time, when I stop modulations he spends some time before everything returns to normal ...
to make an analogy with water,
I have a hose , the water flows , a plug is formed water flows less then the plug is ejected and the water flows normally.

It is as if the modulation envelope contained too much information to be read and sent to the midi output ...

I did the same test spans more than one computer (1 imac and 1 PC win7 64bit) with different midi interface ( Motu 828mk2 , esi m4u , rme babyface )

Can someone he tried to him with a different configuration? ?

It just takes a midi track ( which leaves a physical midi output ), which plays a note , first without Contro Change modulation envelope and with 1 envelope , then 2 then 3 then 4 .... until the tempo fluctuated if it fluctuated.

I wonder if everyone at this problem or if I'm the only ...

thank's

if you understand French, I also post here http://fr.audiofanzine.com/mao/forums/t ... 10468.html

leister · Post by **leister** » Mon Jan 13, 2014 10:29 am

hello everyone.

Here is a video of a small test.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7Kt67 ... sp=sharing

a midi track that comes on the babyface
a second midi track with the babyface as input
I have a midi cable connected to the input and output of the babyface

I have a clip of one bar with each beats a midi note
the first clip without envelope
in the second clip I drew an envelope, that I have copying and pasting in the 3rd , 4th clip ...
until end 11 envelope

Can you do the test at home and tell me if you have the same problem

thank you very much

DJTIVA · Post by **DJTIVA** » Mon Jan 13, 2014 5:49 pm

I still dont get what your problem exactly is with Live and Midi with external gear. I can send notes as also Midi CC`s to my external gear and it works mostly quite well. It is not perfect but good enough to work with. Issues get worse when using more gear as latency of every synth is a bit different.
I am using a RME UFX as sound interface as also a Motu Midi Express XT as Midi interface. I am on a Mac with Live in 64 bit mode.

Try to tell us your problem as easy as possible without any emotions so it gets more understandable.

leister · Post by **leister** » Mon Jan 13, 2014 6:29 pm

Hello djtiva.

Yes my problem is with Live and Midi with external gear.

I can send notes as also Midi CC`s to my external gear and it works mostly quite well

How many CC env do you send at a time?

I did test on different computer with different interface and I ve always the same problem I can't send more than sometimes 1, sometimes 10 CC enveloppe at a time.

the result is the note are not send in time (I don't speak about latency but really not in time, as you can see and eared in video...)

I ll send picture to explain

thanx for your time

DJTIVA · Post by **DJTIVA** » Mon Jan 13, 2014 6:44 pm

If the problem is just when using several channels then record one channel at the time and use the audio from here. I use alot of external gear and some of it I record in real time when the channel is in monitor mode.
Midi does not need much resources. For example I can use my Virus TI2 that really sends much data through a USB cable and do some automation on my Moog Voyager and it works. What not works well is automating Elektron gear, at least these were my observations and so I sold those machines.
It also takes some time to setup the latency for each synth when using with external instruments.

leister · Post by **leister** » Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:52 pm

I like to work with midi till the end , like that I can make changes, but the problem is , I can't work with CC and music without modulation is boring... I know I can work with internal gear modulation, and I do it but working with enveloppe in the midi clip is not the same... I need both...

I did a lot of testing to find where does the problem, and at the end I simplified to the maximum configuration, that's why I send midi data to the midi output directly through the midi input and record it to view what happens ...

here is the midi clip I read

here is the clip with CC enveloppe each clip has a number of envelope that contains as name

here you have the routing

and here you have the recorded clip, as you can see the env are not steady

but it is less important than reality, because while reading it seems that this is the app that freezes as you can see in the video ...
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7Kt67 ... sp=sharing

outsidesys · Post by **outsidesys** » Mon Jan 13, 2014 10:37 pm

MIDI data sent over a MIDI cable is done as a serial protocol. One piece of data at a time. Like soldiers walking in single file.

Therefore, you cannot expect the MIDI "Note On" data to be strictly quantized when flooding the MIDI port with Clock & CC data.

The best option is to have each piece of external gear using its own discrete MIDI port, which also includes the MIDI connection between your two computers.

Also, thinning the CC data by creating larger steps between each CC value will help too.

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