Chord Progressions

[Buleriachk]

what about going this route: http://www.sweetwater.com/cs--MIDI_Pickups

this way you can kick ass in real life and just slice and dice in digiland.

I have a You Rock guitar, and I can enter Midi that way if I want, but the tracking isn't fast enough for my technique now...

Real Guitar could be a great alternative, I even bought a Logitech Guitar Hero guitar, since the strumming works with Real guitar. However, you can't separate the right hand strumming from left hand chord forms, so you can't capo the guitar effectively with a pitch device. Also it doesn't output MIDI directly into clips in a useable way - his midi clips will only drive his guitar samples as I recall, but I haven't worked with it in a bit; I did send Sergey basic flamenco forms, but they were a real PITA to program into his system. Sergey's a very intelligent guy - he lives in southern Russia - and says he will think about it when some current programs are finished... maybe).
I can think of ALL SORTS of alternatives - Godin guitars come to mind, but the Push is SO easy to play even for raw beginners (especially "InKey" which means that everyone will sound like Muzak or bad jazz shortly....

[H20nly]

yeah i just got my Push on New Year's Eve... i'm by it so far...

interesting topic. good luck with your quest... sorry i couldn't be of any help.

[Khazul]

Have you got melodyne? If so, that can decompose your existing audio recording of you playing directly into midi. (Make sure its the DNA version).
They used to have a downloadable demo if this is of interest.

The other headache you might have with non guitar sounds is they may sound horribly muddy given full guitar voiced chords, so you may have to thin them down a bit, but keep the essentials to keep it lively. IMHO the basic flamenco progression are (Im sorry to say), boring as hell and its the player that gives them life and energy.

There used to be a nice scripted guitar in kontact that could kind of transform key voiced chords into decent guitar voiced chords. I have to admit after having tried it for a bit, I gave up and when back to chopping up loops until they released their funk guitarist (or whatever its called) instrument. I wish they did a spanish (including flamenco) version of that as well.

(What would you do if a singer were singing por Bulerias in copla in A Phrygian and suddenly switched to cuple in A major, using the relative F#m in that key as well? With the guitar capo on the 4th fret, yet. Or accompany the cambio in Bulerias or the Silencio in Alegrias? Or.....)

At this stage I would probably throw the capo (which you wont be using at this time) at the singer

But I can already play Flamenco, thank you. I want to experiment with other instruments remaining reasonably close to the traditional idiom, if that makes sense. I get really bored with picado practice sometimes......

I think you have a calling for spanish house - drop in a four to the floor and some fat dirty bass and see where it goes

[Buleriachk]

I have Sonar X3 which has Melodyne and also a guitar strum simulator (which obviously doesn't work well for Flamenco or I would be using it), but I can hand create chords in MIDI and cut and paste into midi clips ... . I know exactly which notes go where, and have no need for Melodyne. I want to PLAY them with Push pads in note groups within phrases, not in full phrases is the issue. I have a very specific issue - two play chords of choice by using the pads (in a drum rack, if possible, or a chord rack which will have to be created somehow...)

And the Flamenco chord variations is precisely why I want to create my own voicings,... they are very different from keyboard voicings...

(Actually, it is the use of power chords intelligently with string articulation with rasgueo, which is why the keys of (A, E, especially) and B, and F# Phrygian are so important in Flamenco, and other keys are less so....
I cover all this in the theory section on my website.....
(I'm talking Solea, Bulerias, Siguiriyas, Tientos/Tangos, Fandangos Grandes, here - among others)

And let's not kid ourselves - Spanish Gypsies are coming online very fast, and will be asking for the same thing as soon as they get the money for the electronics..... There is much more to the flamenco sound than chord voicing, but it is an absolute necessity to get started....

Have you got melodyne? If so, that can decompose your existing audio recording of you playing directly into midi. (Make sure its the DNA version).
They used to have a downloadable demo if this is of interest.

The other headache you might have with non guitar sounds is they may sound horribly muddy given full guitar voiced chords, so you may have to thin them down a bit, but keep the essentials to keep it lively. IMHO the basic flamenco progression are (Im sorry to say), boring as hell and its the player that gives them life and energy.

There used to be a nice scripted guitar in kontact that could kind of transform key voiced chords into decent guitar voiced chords. I have to admit after having tried it for a bit, I gave up and when back to chopping up loops until they released their funk guitarist (or whatever its called) instrument. I wish they did a spanish (including flamenco) version of that as well.

(What would you do if a singer were singing por Bulerias in copla in A Phrygian and suddenly switched to cuple in A major, using the relative F#m in that key as well? With the guitar capo on the 4th fret, yet. Or accompany the cambio in Bulerias or the Silencio in Alegrias? Or.....)

At this stage I would probably throw the capo (which you wont be using at this time) at the singer

But I can already play Flamenco, thank you. I want to experiment with other instruments remaining reasonably close to the traditional idiom, if that makes sense. I get really bored with picado practice sometimes......

I think you have a calling for spanish house - drop in a four to the floor and some fat dirty bass and see where it goes

[cottonrich]

Allow me to resurrect this thread. I've been trying to find a workaround for the exact same thing as the OP. I dragged a midi chord effect onto a drum rack cell and dialled in a custom voicing. Repeat x 4 or however many chords you need. Of course, now I can put a Rhodes or whatever on each cell. But really I need to have one instance of the same instrument across every cell, a) for CPU but mainly because b) like the OP said, I want to audition different sounds as I'm jamming with it.

Any ideas?

[Buleriachk]

There may be some people working on it. If I told you any more, I'd have to kill you...

(A Chord Rack is such an obvious feature for a musician; I am surprised and disappointed it wasn't included with the chord midi effect ...)

Allow me to resurrect this thread. I've been trying to find a workaround for the exact same thing as the OP. I dragged a midi chord effect onto a drum rack cell and dialled in a custom voicing. Repeat x 4 or however many chords you need. Of course, now I can put a Rhodes or whatever on each cell. But really I need to have one instance of the same instrument across every cell, a) for CPU but mainly because b) like the OP said, I want to audition different sounds as I'm jamming with it.

Any ideas?

[cottonrich]

I never get these kind of things.. the bother you have to go through to make it even sound halfway natural. You might as well just put some time into learning some chords and play them in yourself (always sounds better and is faster in the end; it just costs youi a little time to learn)

This is a misunderstanding. I know chord theory and am not looking for a device to invent chords for me. I want my own voicings (not simple diatonic ones) that I can trigger from a drum rack (using the midi chord effect.) I'm not talking about one slow chord every bar, which I could just draw into a midi clip. Rather, staccato comping with altered dominants etc. Anyway, this thread is not about how to play them in but how to get one instance of an instrument across all drum pad cells rather than having to drop separate instruments onto each cell.

So as far as 'learning chords' goes, I've already learnt them. But I'm not Herbie Hancock and I don't have the time to invest in learning to play technically challenging chords 4 to a bar in real time.

[cottonrich]

@buleriachk

This might not be a bad compromise?:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ky1erSZ ... ata_player

Yes, a chord rack would seem an obvious thing. But EDM, on the whole, is harmonically conservative (note I said 'on the whole.'), jazz or classical samples excepted.

[carrieres]

you can use a clip as a chord container
put each chord you want inside their own clip
change the global quantize to none
and voila

[cottonrich]

you can use a clip as a chord container
put each chord you want inside their own clip
change the global quantize to none
and voila

Thank you.

But as for the original point, any way to get one instance of an instrument across multiple cells in a Drum Rack to preserve CPU and make it easy to audition new presets on the fly?

[Buleriachk]

There is a difference in a chord progression from dominant to tonic, vs. dominant 7th to tonic.
That is the reason for the harmonic minor scale.... the distinction is central to the diatonic music of the western world (sometimes I wonder if anyone here has ever really listened to Mozart or Bach .....).

[stringtapper]

There is a difference in a chord progression from dominant to tonic, vs. dominant 7th to tonic.
That is the reason for the harmonic minor scale.... the distinction is central to the diatonic music of the western world (sometimes I wonder if anyone here has ever really listened to Mozart or Bach .....).

The reason for the harmonic minor scale is not related to the difference between a dominant triad and dominant seventh chord.

The purpose of the harmonic minor scale is so that any chord built on the fifth scale degree, whether a triad or a seventh chord, can function as a dominant in relation to the key's tonic. The raising of the seventh scale degree ensures that the third of the dominant chord is major and therefore may function as the leading tone to the tonic, which is the crucial element for a functional V-I cadence.

Again, whether the dominant is a triad or a seventh chord has nothing to do with the harmonic minor scale, easily understood by the fact that the seventh of a dominant seventh chord, scale degree four, is the same in the major mode as well as the natural, harmonic, and melodic minor modes.

[Buleriachk]

For example, in A minor, the third of the dominant 7th is raised (from g to g#) to ensure the isomorphism between the progression E7 -> Am and the same progression G7 -> C in its related major (where F# is lowered to F in the G chord).

This ensures the Dominant to Tonic relation is consistent in diatonic music....

Those who know will trust me.,...

But whatever turns persnickety music majors on; the main thing is to get Ableton to implement dominant 7th chords (as temporary changes in "InKey" mode) in both major and minor (and for use as secondary dominants (e.g. A7 -> Am in key of Am.....

Oh, and a chord rack too.....

[Matt_Quinn]

you can use a clip as a chord container
put each chord you want inside their own clip
change the global quantize to none
and voila

Thank you.

But as for the original point, any way to get one instance of an instrument across multiple cells in a Drum Rack to preserve CPU and make it easy to audition new presets on the fly?

Just an idea, but if you put an External Instrument device in each cell, you can send the MIDI out to a separate MIDI track with a single instrument on it that you could then swap out as much as you want.

[Buleriachk]

you can use a clip as a chord container
put each chord you want inside their own clip
change the global quantize to none
and voila

Thank you.

But as for the original point, any way to get one instance of an instrument across multiple cells in a Drum Rack to preserve CPU and make it easy to audition new presets on the fly?

Just an idea, but if you put an External Instrument device in each cell, you can send the MIDI out to a separate MIDI track with a single instrument on it that you could then swap out as much as you want.

Have you actually tried this?