Mixing and sub bass problems

webban · Post by **webban** » Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:00 am

Okay first off I want to say that I have been doing a ton of research on mixing and I'm still having trouble finding the tips I'm looking for. So, my first problem is sub bass. I can't seem to get my sub bass to have that loud, heavy sound that I'm going for. I've been going through every plug in i have and making sub bass and I still can't get it to sound right. I'm not sure if its the way my mix is, or if I'm not making the sub bass right in my plug in. All I'm using is a sine wave with a tiny bit of square wave. It jus makes no sense why its not sounding right being that sub bass is such a basic, easy sound to make. I just can't get that heavy sound I'm going for.
Now, my second problem is that I've been working on this track and so far it sounds amazing. But, about halfway through I realized that I had izotope ozone and an eq8 on my master track. Once I disarmed those, the track sounded terrible. It sounded so flat and dull. And from what I've been researching, it's not advised to have any plug ins on your master track. So now I'm having so much trouble getting this mix to sound right and im getting extremely frustrated. I don't consider myself a beginner when it comes to music whatsoever. I've been writing music my whole life. And I know alot when it comes to production, it's just that mixing is my downfall. It's confuses the hell out of me. Does anyone have any suggestions or any links that will explain the whole mix down process? I've been trying to find the info I'm looking for, but I can't find it. And when it comes to compression, I get lost. I understand what compression does and what it's used for, but im just not sure when to use compression and when not to. So if anybody had any advice or tips for me, I would really appreciate it!

Here's a link to the track I've been working on. http://www.soundcloud.com/tragicmagic/magic It still has izotope ozone and eq8 on the master, and there is no sub bass yet. It sounds great right now, but will having ozone and that eq on the master cause problems when it's time to master it? Also, i should add that i do not master my tracks, my buddy does. I know nothing about mastering.

I know that that are no specific rules when it comes to production, but I just want this track to sound perfect. I play out live alot and I want to throw this track into my mix, and I just don't to have it sound terrible coming out of a big system.
I apologize if I started rambling on in this post, I am just so frustrated right now. So if you guys could help me out that would amazing.

Thanks bros!

webban · Post by **webban** » Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:12 am

As far as the sub bass goes I guess all I really need to do is mess around with eq'ing some stuff and cutting some unneeded frequencies in certain places so it can sit better in the mix. So I'll be able to take care of that problem. I'm still stuck on the mixing part. The track sounds SO much better with ozone and the eq on the master. I guess I'm just going to keep on there. As long as it sounds good that's all that matter. Also, I've listened to this track through my monitors, in my car, a few different headphones , and various other sources and it sounds good through all of them. Practice makes perfect. Mixing is definitely my weakness as where sound design and composing are my strong points. Still, any advice will help.

Thanks again bros!

ian_halsall · Post by **ian_halsall** » Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:44 am

webban wrote:As far as the sub bass goes I guess all I really need to do is mess around with eq'ing some stuff and cutting some unneeded frequencies in certain places so it can sit better in the mix. So I'll be able to take care of that problem. I'm still stuck on the mixing part. The track sounds SO much better with ozone and the eq on the master. I guess I'm just going to keep on there. As long as it sounds good that's all that matter. Also, I've listened to this track through my monitors, in my car, a few different headphones , and various other sources and it sounds good through all of them. Practice makes perfect. Mixing is definitely my weakness as where sound design and composing are my strong points. Still, any advice will help.

Thanks again bros!

What does "split that bitch" mean?

webban · Post by **webban** » Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:06 am

Split that bitch like a chromosone is referring to splitting open a blunt.

sigabort · Post by **sigabort** » Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:09 am

What's a blunt?

webban · Post by **webban** » Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:20 am

Really? Lol. It's kinda like a cigar, you split it open, take out the tobacco, fill it up with weed, and smoke it. This is so off topic haha

ian_halsall · Post by **ian_halsall** » Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:02 am

I would take that sig off - in 5 years when you are looking to get a 'proper' job it will haunt you.

vitalispopoff · Post by **vitalispopoff** » Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:42 am

webban wrote: So, my first problem is sub bass. I can't seem to get my sub bass to have that loud, heavy sound that I'm going for. I've been going through every plug in i have and making sub bass and I still can't get it to sound right. I'm not sure if its the way my mix is, or if I'm not making the sub bass right in my plug in. All I'm using is a sine wave with a tiny bit of square wave. It jus makes no sense why its not sounding right being that sub bass is such a basic, easy sound to make. I just can't get that heavy sound I'm going for.

First of all: each instrument, instrument group (let's call it section: drum section, bass section, fx pads, pads etc, to avoid confusing with group tracks and so on) has its own frequency band to be set as a main field of activity.

when it comes to gather all these instrument sections are rather to talk in the frequencies they are strong, for instance:

bassline is almost in all cases active in the same frequencies as the bassdrum (60-150Hz) so when the sounds mix the result is like a overcooked porridge. There are a few workaround for that:
#1 cut the frequencies of one or both instruments
#2 reconstruct their pattern so they start "talking" to each other
#3 equalize both and compress one that is less important (usually it is bassline to be sidechain compressed).

the higher the frequency band You check is, the less problem You've got, as there is enough room for hihats (around 2-8kHz), vocal consonant transients, and additional noise, while at the same time bassdrum, bassline and sub bass are to be cut precisly (30-120Hz).

This is the easy part.

The tough is: the mix has to be balanced across all the frequencies, because where the bass lack, the high freqs go stronger. Kind'a Yin Yang.

Now, my second problem is that I've been working on this track and so far it sounds amazing. But, about halfway through I realized that I had izotope ozone and an eq8 on my master track. Once I disarmed those, the track sounded terrible. It sounded so flat and dull.

Check the changes in sound as You bypass following effects in ozone (I guess it's a whole effect chain with compressor, equalization, some kind of transient adding device and so on) if the sound keeps ok with equalizers on only, then You're half way through, as almost everything You equalise in the master track, may be done by clearing the mix tracks.
Compare the sounds of each track and clean it. If by that You get - not astonishing - but clearly defined sound in mixdown, that needs like less than +/- 2dB correction in the master track, then it is ok.

And when it comes to compression, I get lost. I understand what compression does and what it's used for, but im just not sure when to use compression and when not to. So if anybody had any advice or tips for me, I would really appreciate it![/quote]

If You want to use compressor at all - use it as a part of instrument, and always be curious on its affecting the sound, as it is surprisingly easy to screw the groove with it.
Compressors because of their function and construction are to be used very carefully: as attack cuts the sound it may produce clicks while at the same time mute the transients of the compressed sound, when it is set to short.
the release on the other hand, if to long, may still be in charge, when the compressor hits again.
the treshold is to manage the area if Your interest: just a highest peaks, the line straight above the main action, in its middle, just below, or deeply under the level of the action - depending on Your goal: just making a room to volume up, seriously boost the sound, experiment with it and so on.
This also refers to the ratio - from just a tiny compression for the whole sound (with treshold below the main action level, the ratio should stay at 1.01~1.10) to a brickwall compress (inf.) which makes compressor working just like limiter.

another part of the story is sidechain compressing, and this one, when used the right way, may help in clearing the sound (especially in the lowest freqs). try this one as an example:
in the track 1 put a bass drum and mak a 1bar loop
in another track put a synth and set 1 bar loop with one long C1 (it might be C0 - not sure now) note, after the synth put a compressor and set the sidechain to be fed with track 1 bass drum.
Now: ratio at least 4:1, attack ~ 2ms, release (depending on the tempo: let say 120bpm) 100-150ms, and treshold -12dB for starters. Listen to the bass drum pumping the bassline.
If You set with well tuned equalization, You'll get the needed room for BD although the bassline is one continuous sound, that plays in pretty the same frequencies.

webban wrote:Really? Lol. It's kinda like a cigar, you split it open, take out the tobacco, fill it up with weed, and smoke it. This is so off topic haha

and don't waste weed by mixing with the junk from the cigarettes.

störgeräusche · Post by **störgeräusche** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:41 pm

ian_halsall wrote:I would take that sig off - in 5 years when you are looking to get a 'proper' job it will haunt you.

...like when you apply for a job you include your forum activities in the resume, right?

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:08 pm

If you're happy with the way the mixdown sounds with effects on the master buss, well....

If it sounds good, it is good

stoersignal · Post by **stoersignal** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:46 pm

Tarekith wrote:If you're happy with the way the mixdown sounds with effects on the master buss, well....

If it sounds good, it is good

That's what i wanted to say! If you want to send this track to a mastering engineer you could send him the track One Time without ozone and one Time with , for a Kind of reference where you want to go

djqnrg · Post by **djqnrg** » Sun Jan 19, 2014 2:13 pm

ian_halsall wrote:I would take that sig off - in 5 years when you are looking to get a 'proper' job it will haunt you.

15 years & counting. i have a proper job.

re:dream · Post by **re:dream** » Sun Jan 19, 2014 5:16 pm

But why like a chromosome?

ian_halsall · Post by **ian_halsall** » Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:16 pm

did anyone find out about the chromosome? it's been bothering me

Mixing and sub bass problems

Mixing and sub bass problems

Re: Mixing and sub bass problems

Re: Mixing and sub bass problems

Re: Mixing and sub bass problems

Re: Mixing and sub bass problems

Re: Mixing and sub bass problems

Re: Mixing and sub bass problems

Re: Mixing and sub bass problems

Re: Mixing and sub bass problems

Re: Mixing and sub bass problems

Re: Mixing and sub bass problems

Re: Mixing and sub bass problems

Re: Mixing and sub bass problems

Re: Mixing and sub bass problems