2 Weeks with PUSH...My Verdict is In

Discuss Push with other users.
D'Jango
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2 Weeks with PUSH...My Verdict is In

Post by D'Jango » Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:02 am

I finally took the leap to purchasing the Ableton Push and have spent the last two weeks hammering away at the in's and out's of the workflow and like a lot of Push users I am impressed at the workflow improvements and overall I have to say Ableton did a good job on the 1st version of Push and I'm looking forward what they have in store for the future. Plain and simple if your a Live user adding Push to your workflow should be a must, combined with the power of Live 9 its a producer/performers dream.

At the time I purchased I highly considered getting the Maschine Mk2 or Studio with the 2.0 update but after downloading the NI Maschine 2.0 demo I found it too unstable with constant crashing and it looked like a nightmare waiting to happen in the studio with no autosave features in Maschine and the fact that Maschine 2.0 still needs help in the arrangement area I passed. IMO I find Maschine 2.0 even with the upgrades rather limiting but thats to be expected because its not meant to replace a powerful DAW like Live 9. I think Maschine excels at the integration and thats one of the major features that initially attracted me to it.

One of the things that attracted me to Push like a lot of users was the hands on controls and of course scale mode and while I found it as a easy way and unique way to come up with melodies the pads can't replace the expressive feeling of keys to me. The pads will wear your fingers down and ultimately I just prefer to play melodies in with my keys, i've found playing chords has some difficult moments but I expected it while trying to learn a new instrument. The hands on controls of Push is by far the best experience I've had ever with using Live and once you setup your custom Racks browsing is even better.

While I have enjoyed Push there are a few things I would like to see in Push 2.0

-Better Visual Displays (waveform and metering would awesome)
-Dedicated sample editing features
-Auto Load/Preview for Browsing
-Plug-in Presets/Controls Integration

Overall I think Ableton is heading in the right direction, would love to hear the feedback of other Push users on this forum so please post your experience.

Image

jestermgee
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Re: 2 Weeks with PUSH...My Verdict is In

Post by jestermgee » Thu Jan 02, 2014 2:57 am

Well i'm alone at work while everyone is on holidays so bored enough to throw in a comment.

I held right back for over 6 months to see what the uptake and user experience was first. Push wasn't something I really thought I wanted/needed but one area I have become bored in was drum programming. I owned an MPD32 which was alright but I am not a drummer so it didn't really assist much better than my MIDI keyboard.

I was wary of buying in due to the issues people were reporting with the LEDs and so on but what sold me was some of the videos on drum programming and the 2nd round of 25% off software upgrade (I really wanted dual monitors). I decided to upgrade and get Push at the same time and sold the MDP to help pay for it.

The drum sequencer is a lot of fun and very useful. It has made programming and changing up drum tracks on the fly so much easier because of the note editing. Then there is the scale feature which I had never looked into with a MIDI keyboard and now I feel like I have missed out for years. I'm no expert at all in scales, chords and theory but I have got a good ear and just switching between scale and chromatic mode has started to visually demonstrate the patterns associated so I was well impressed that I was learning new skills there.

I found the playing on pads surprisingly easy from keyboard and loading in some strings and setting different scales I was switching moods just so easily. Still can't replace my keys though, not quite as expressive especially piano.

Then there was PXT Live...

Where the HELL does one find all the time to get a good handle on all this goodness. To be 16 again and have nothing but time to kill is all I would like now.

D'Jango
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Re: 2 Weeks with PUSH...My Verdict is In

Post by D'Jango » Thu Jan 02, 2014 3:17 am

jestermgee wrote:Well i'm alone at work while everyone is on holidays so bored enough to throw in a comment.

I held right back for over 6 months to see what the uptake and user experience was first. Push wasn't something I really thought I wanted/needed but one area I have become bored in was drum programming. I owned an MPD32 which was alright but I am not a drummer so it didn't really assist much better than my MIDI keyboard.

I was wary of buying in due to the issues people were reporting with the LEDs and so on but what sold me was some of the videos on drum programming and the 2nd round of 25% off software upgrade (I really wanted dual monitors). I decided to upgrade and get Push at the same time and sold the MDP to help pay for it.

The drum sequencer is a lot of fun and very useful. It has made programming and changing up drum tracks on the fly so much easier because of the note editing. Then there is the scale feature which I had never looked into with a MIDI keyboard and now I feel like I have missed out for years. I'm no expert at all in scales, chords and theory but I have got a good ear and just switching between scale and chromatic mode has started to visually demonstrate the patterns associated so I was well impressed that I was learning new skills there.

I found the playing on pads surprisingly easy from keyboard and loading in some strings and setting different scales I was switching moods just so easily. Still can't replace my keys though, not quite as expressive especially piano.

Then there was PXT Live...

Where the HELL does one find all the time to get a good handle on all this goodness. To be 16 again and have nothing but time to kill is all I would like now.
1000% agreed I held out forever just to see what native instruments had coming with Maschine and other controllers, the step sequencer on Push has a unique balance that I wasn't expecting and now I don't know what I would do without it, programming drum patterns takes on a whole other level. I love the pads on Push and the scale feature has it perks but like you said expressive playing is meant for keys and I love my Akai Max49 way to much and works perfect in my Push workflow.

I just got PXT Live-Plus yesterday and love the live clip chopping and drum modes I plan on considering Komplete 9 ultimate and getting the audio modder addon next

v00d00ppl
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Re: 2 Weeks with PUSH...My Verdict is In

Post by v00d00ppl » Thu Jan 02, 2014 4:13 pm

jestermgee wrote:
Where the HELL does one find all the time to get a good handle on all this goodness. To be 16 again and have nothing but time to kill is all I would like now.
I feel the same way. I can't use the push for less than 1 hour. It gets me involved like a good Downton Abbey episode. One month in and I play with it more and more.
SSL X Desk / Apollo Twin Solo / Sherman Restyler / Ensoniq EPS Classic / Analog Keys / Handsome Audio Zulu

Dblaze6
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Re: 2 Weeks with PUSH...My Verdict is In

Post by Dblaze6 » Thu Jan 09, 2014 7:05 am

So for someone completely new with music producing is it worth it? I have a subscription to Lynda.com which has tutorials on how to use Ableton Push and Ableton Live 9. I'm a very quick learner. I'm having a hard time on deciding whether I should spend the money and get the Push or just get an MPC keyboard and save money.

Not only do I want to learn the ins-and-outs of Ableton, but also Logic Pro X.
I want to start investing in using VST's such as Omnisphere or Massive.

Any recommendations for a newbie?

re:dream
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Re: 2 Weeks with PUSH...My Verdict is In

Post by re:dream » Thu Jan 09, 2014 7:11 am

How's your keyboard skills? Do you know your scales and chords?

login
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Re: 2 Weeks with PUSH...My Verdict is In

Post by login » Thu Jan 09, 2014 7:59 pm

Dblaze6 wrote:So for someone completely new with music producing is it worth it? I have a subscription to Lynda.com which has tutorials on how to use Ableton Push and Ableton Live 9. I'm a very quick learner. I'm having a hard time on deciding whether I should spend the money and get the Push or just get an MPC keyboard and save money.

Not only do I want to learn the ins-and-outs of Ableton, but also Logic Pro X.
I want to start investing in using VST's such as Omnisphere or Massive.

Any recommendations for a newbie?
If you are new to music and don't know to play a keyboard go for push. Push enhances melodic and armonic compositionwhich might be a very important part of music depending on your style. MPC style controllers can't make up in that area.


And I would recommend to stay focused on Live and maybe one VST for a while before trying to learn one more DAW and such complex VST's as omnisphere and massive.

Dblaze6
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Re: 2 Weeks with PUSH...My Verdict is In

Post by Dblaze6 » Fri Jan 10, 2014 4:00 am

I hear you. I'm gonna take my chances if I get stuck with one DAW, I'll just switch over to the next one. All I know is that I have a really good ear for music. Couldn't Synthesia help me get used to learning cords on the piano etc? There are free courses on music theory on youtube. 600$ on the push is a lot to spend including VSTs, etc, etc. I just dropped 1,700$ on a new macbook pro with Logic Pro X. Can it work with Logic Pro X?

wildaudio
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Re: 2 Weeks with PUSH...My Verdict is In

Post by wildaudio » Fri Jan 10, 2014 11:41 am

8O Had my push for 3 weeks... and every day I've had the chance to turn it on I've started a new tune. It's just been too easy that way, and I luv it!
It is (regardless of all it's faults - can't load sampled loops..what?.. NI instrument racks crashing when loaded via Push..randomly..haa!? ) the best piece I have purchased since I started using a computer to make music - way back in 1995 ( I actually start making music in 1984, but that's another story ;-) ).

But I think it works so well for me because I started my musical life as a drummer...

login
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Re: 2 Weeks with PUSH...My Verdict is In

Post by login » Fri Jan 10, 2014 6:26 pm

Dblaze6 wrote:I hear you. I'm gonna take my chances if I get stuck with one DAW, I'll just switch over to the next one. All I know is that I have a really good ear for music. Couldn't Synthesia help me get used to learning cords on the piano etc? There are free courses on music theory on youtube. 600$ on the push is a lot to spend including VSTs, etc, etc. I just dropped 1,700$ on a new macbook pro with Logic Pro X. Can it work with Logic Pro X?
Synthesia is for learning to play, well in fact to practice songs, it doesnt makes up for learning posture, playing technique, fingering, inversions etc.

Music theory is obviously very usefull and it can get you very far by it self using midi, but it's not very fun.

When you dont know how to play very well trying to use music theory at the keyboard is slugish, and you end editing the piano roll anyway.

In that way Push is a really good solution, it's much more easy to play than a keyboard, scale mode makes music theory easy and the step sequencer makes editing the piano roll pleasant.

I would really skip buying any vst and get push right away and work with good free ones or even go for Live Suite and learn to use operator and sampler which can take you very far.

In my experience having a bunch of tools such as vst's, effects and samples wasn't very usefull without music theory knowledge. Other midi controllers really don't provide integration and they don't help in the most critical part of music making: composing.

Push really was a revelation on how important, usefull and powerfull is to know to play and learn music theory, now I take piano lessons and practice everyday. Push is there to help me programming drums or enhance ideas with it's scale mode.

D'Jango
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Re: 2 Weeks with PUSH...My Verdict is In

Post by D'Jango » Tue Jan 28, 2014 11:05 pm

login wrote:
Dblaze6 wrote:I hear you. I'm gonna take my chances if I get stuck with one DAW, I'll just switch over to the next one. All I know is that I have a really good ear for music. Couldn't Synthesia help me get used to learning cords on the piano etc? There are free courses on music theory on youtube. 600$ on the push is a lot to spend including VSTs, etc, etc. I just dropped 1,700$ on a new macbook pro with Logic Pro X. Can it work with Logic Pro X?
Synthesia is for learning to play, well in fact to practice songs, it doesnt makes up for learning posture, playing technique, fingering, inversions etc.

Music theory is obviously very usefull and it can get you very far by it self using midi, but it's not very fun.

When you dont know how to play very well trying to use music theory at the keyboard is slugish, and you end editing the piano roll anyway.

In that way Push is a really good solution, it's much more easy to play than a keyboard, scale mode makes music theory easy and the step sequencer makes editing the piano roll pleasant.

I would really skip buying any vst and get push right away and work with good free ones or even go for Live Suite and learn to use operator and sampler which can take you very far.

In my experience having a bunch of tools such as vst's, effects and samples wasn't very usefull without music theory knowledge. Other midi controllers really don't provide integration and they don't help in the most critical part of music making: composing.

Push really was a revelation on how important, usefull and powerfull is to know to play and learn music theory, now I take piano lessons and practice everyday. Push is there to help me programming drums or enhance ideas with it's scale mode.
I have to agree 1000% having Push has made me realize just how important music theory is, there is nothing worst than having ideas and not being able to translate them into melodies your capable of playing. I personally ran into a wall every single time because of my lack of music theory and not know what the heck I was playing even though it sounded good I didn't know the language I wanted to speak musically. I would definitely recommend having a keyboard close by to Push and using them to compose is as good as it gets.

motoryogurt
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Re: 2 Weeks with PUSH...My Verdict is In

Post by motoryogurt » Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:56 am

Ill just add this.

Having push and Maschine Studio (or MK2/1) is sort of amazing.
Push is great for jamming within ableton, but the pads are not even close to Maschine. I don't know if it has to do with pad size or just contruction, but Maschine will continue to hold a spot with me just for its feel.

While Maschines workflow is much different, now that I've learned it, I often find myself banging out a quick fix on it more often then I would on push...though again, that could just be the better pads pulling me in.

Push. Love the note mode, and I do use it...but it has certainly not replaced the keyboard.

All in all. The Push is now front and center in my setup with Maschine on my right for working drums, or mashing out a quick idea. Then its over to Ableton and Push/Keyboard to suck it all together.

eyeknow
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Re: 2 Weeks with PUSH...My Verdict is In

Post by eyeknow » Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:05 am

I agree about the pads not being as good. They leave much to be desired honestly. But oddly, and I guessing this is the integration mostly, it's just so much fun and so logical I don't care :lol:

re:dream
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Re: 2 Weeks with PUSH...My Verdict is In

Post by re:dream » Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:21 am

I find with time, my ability to use the pads for expressive playing improves. Maybe it is just that my fingers are getting used to the sensitivity curves. But I am definitely more comfortable these days getting a much better dynamic range out of the Push pads.

leida
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Re: 2 Weeks with PUSH...My Verdict is In

Post by leida » Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:51 am

Hye
Thanks for this discussions and all the feelings on Push.
I'm also considering buying the thing, but not sure...
Because i'm a keyboard player, i really even prefer to use my mini mpk to play notes.
I own a launchpad so i've tested the seq step within the launchpad95 script.
But, i see in Push a wonderful tool to win some time and have a lot of things without the mouse.
One question, when i see the pictures of Push: the texte on some buttons seems dark no ?
Isn't it a problem when you play during the day ?
And another question: it seems there is no custom skin for it, like for Maschine of Mpc. would be nice no ?
Cheers
Eric

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