Presonus Firebox

zion15 · Post by **zion15** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 10:28 am

FORMAT wrote:Well not really because ideally I'd like to have One interface and sell my current one...

in that case i'd recommend considering traveler too. unless you're really sure it's too big for you to lug around conveniently.

i've got a big jansport laptop backpack myself that i carry my portable gear in and even traveler does have a footprint of about a 15" laptop, it fits in nicely with all the other stuff.

but like i said, it's not perfect - just a very good compromise between features, size and price for me. for just killer sound quality and i/o i'd go for the fireface and for just mobility probably something like terratec x26fw / focusrite saffire / firebox.

olafmol · Post by **olafmol** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 9:15 am

anybody with a firebox care to test the MIDI latency with this program?

http://earthvegaconnection.com/evc/products/miditest/

Olaf

FORMAT · Post by **FORMAT** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 9:42 am

zion15 wrote:
FORMAT wrote:Well not really because ideally I'd like to have One interface and sell my current one...
in that case i'd recommend considering traveler too. unless you're really sure it's too big for you to lug around conveniently.

i've got a big jansport laptop backpack myself that i carry my portable gear in and even traveler does have a footprint of about a 15" laptop, it fits in nicely with all the other stuff.

but like i said, it's not perfect - just a very good compromise between features, size and price for me. for just killer sound quality and i/o i'd go for the fireface and for just mobility probably something like terratec x26fw / focusrite saffire / firebox.

It's weird... I think that the Fireface may be more transportable than Traveler.
The situation is such that the Motu doesn't fit in the Maudio laptop rucksack because the rack ears cannot be taken off. The Fireface's can, so they might be the few centimetres that I need less, Plus the fireface is slimmer isn't it? In terms of depth.

pentylzic · Post by **pentylzic** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 10:53 am

Hi,

One thing to be aware of with the bundled Cubase LE if you run OSX Tiger: apparently a lot of the LE CD's that have been distributed with the Firebox have an installer that doesn't work with Tiger, and you will have to get Presonus to send you a new CD with an updated Cubase LE version. Don't know as yet how long that takes (I only just tried to install LE, and so have only just requested my replacement CD from Presonus). Of course, I use Live for most things, so it's no big deal for me...

Link to more info: http://forum.cubase.net/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=19336

Steve
(Pentylzic)

zion15 · Post by **zion15** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 11:44 am

FORMAT wrote:The situation is such that the Motu doesn't fit in the Maudio laptop rucksack because the rack ears cannot be taken off.

umm... do you still mean traveler by "the Motu"? mine came with rack ears that weren't screwed on by default and can be easily screwed and unscrewed. don't have use for them myself so i just put them in a safe place in case i need them someday. so it's about 14-15 inches wide i think.

fireface is a bit over 17 with rack ears screwed off so it's not a big difference - it MIGHT have actually fit to my backpack but i didn't try it out since in the end it was just too expensive for me to get at the moment.

FORMAT wrote:The Fireface's can, so they might be the few centimetres that I need less, Plus the fireface is slimmer isn't it? In terms of depth.

they're actually both about equal deepness - traveler 9 inches, fireface little over 9. i think it's a good depth actually since i can put my laptop on top of the traveler and use it as a little "table"

if you have the cash to spare and think fireface is portable enough for what you need it, i DO recommend getting it since the sound quality pretty much blows MOTU away and the drivers are rock solid on both platforms. plus RME has an amazing mixing/monitoring system (the totalmix) that's a lot more flexible than MOTU's cuemix.

basically, i'm not a professional nor do i have a dayjob at the moment so i just had to settle for something that was "good enough" and inexpensive enough, instead of awesome. fireface would've been an overkill.

FORMAT · Post by **FORMAT** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 12:03 pm

zion15 wrote:
FORMAT wrote:The situation is such that the Motu doesn't fit in the Maudio laptop rucksack because the rack ears cannot be taken off.
umm... do you still mean traveler by "the Motu"?

No I meant my original 828. The new 828 comes with screw-off ears too.
Well I'll push the decision off for a bit..

ethios4 · Post by **ethios4** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 7:30 pm

olafmol wrote:anybody with a firebox care to test the MIDI latency with this program?

http://earthvegaconnection.com/evc/products/miditest/

Olaf

Here's what I got using the default settings on the test.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
MidiTest Results
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

================ Info ====================================================

Date: 12 Aug 2005
Time: 14:26:11
AppVersion: 2.9.211
OS: Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition, Service Pack 1 (Build 2600)
Processor(s): AMD Athlon(tm) XP 2600+
Speed: 2079 MHz
Number: 1
API: MultiMedia Extensions (MME)
Errors: None

================ Tested Message Types ====================================

Note off: yes
Note on: yes
Key aftertouch: yes
Controller: yes
Program change: yes
Channel aftertouch: yes
Pitchbend: yes
System exclusive: yes
MIDI time code quarter frame: yes
Song position pointer: yes
Song select: yes
Tune request: yes
MIDI clock: yes
MIDI tick: no
Start: yes
Continue: yes
Stop: yes
Active sensing: yes
System reset: yes
System exclusive mixed with realtime messages: no

================ Ports ===================================================

MIDI Output: PreSonus FIREBOX MIDI Out
Description: PreSonus FireBOX WDM Audio
Provider: PreSonus
DriverDate: 10-14-2004
DriverVersion: 1.20.0.0

MIDI Input: PreSonus FIREBOX MIDI In
Description: PreSonus FireBOX WDM Audio
Provider: PreSonus
DriverDate: 10-14-2004
DriverVersion: 1.20.0.0

================ Results Per Message =====================================

MESSAGES Snd Rcv Snd+Rcv

Message TotalTime: 1115.21 ms 327426.39 ms 328541.59 ms
Message MaximumTime: 0.43 ms 13.99 ms 14.03 ms
Message MinimumTime: 0.03 ms 6.29 ms 6.38 ms
Message AverageTime: 0.04 ms 10.48 ms 10.51 ms
SysexTime: 32284.15 ms 33684.04 ms
SysexAverage: 0.32 ms 0.34 ms

< 1 ms: 31250 0 0
1 - 2 ms: 0 0 0
2 - 3 ms: 0 0 0
3 - 4 ms: 0 0 0
4 - 5 ms: 0 0 0
5 - 10 ms: 0 20381 20282
10 - 20 ms: 0 10869 10968
20 - 50 ms: 0 0 0
50 - 100 ms: 0 0 0
> 100 ms: 0 0 0

Message count: 31250
Sysex size: 99996 Sysex passed: 99996

Message latency: 10.51 ms
Message jitter: 1.07 ms
Message max deviation: 4.14 ms

================ Results Per Byte ========================================

BYTES

Byte TotalTime: 145784.56 ms
Byte MaximumTime: 12.04 ms
Byte MinimumTime: 2.61 ms
Byte AverageTime: 4.67 ms

< 1 ms: 0
1 - 2 ms: 0
2 - 3 ms: 8
3 - 4 ms: 19388
4 - 5 ms: 6471
5 - 10 ms: 4861
10 - 20 ms: 522
20 - 50 ms: 0
50 - 100 ms: 0
> 100 ms: 0

Byte count: 78636

Byte latency: 4.67 ms
Byte jitter: 1.98 ms
Byte max deviation: 7.37 ms

olafmol · Post by **olafmol** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 12:58 pm

Message latency: 10.51 ms
Message jitter: 1.07 ms
Message max deviation: 4.14 ms

woaaaa! 10.51ms ....... that's not good......

Olaf

ethios4 · Post by **ethios4** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 5:14 pm

perhaps I didn't have the test or Firebox configured correctly? I just got it 2 days ago...

ethios4 · Post by **ethios4** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 5:28 pm

dangit! I posted a long description of my experience using the Firebox at a gig, and it didn't post...
Well, basically, if you get the buffer size set properly for Live the Firebox works flawlessly, from my experience last night performing for 2.5 hours.
I was getting all kinds of stutters, pops, and glitches with the Firebox until I realized the problem is that Live likes buffer settings in increments of 128 samples. The Firebox sets its buffer from a dropdown menu of buffer settings in ms, eg. 3ms, 3.5ms, 4ms, 6ms, 8ms, etc..., which gets you buffer settings of (something like) 213, 544, etc.... I found only one combination of sample rate and buffer size that corresponded to an increment of 128 samples. I had to use 96kHz with a buffer size of 4ms, I believe, which allowed 384 sample buffer size. With that setting I experienced no hiccups with the Firebox. Of course, my cpu meter was running around 65% all night from mixing just 2 mp3 clips in Complex mode, and some midi clips running out to another computer. For me thats the first time I've run Live without any audio glitches.
The only other problem I've found so far is that the Firebox really doesn't like it if you change its settings while its in use by Live. Everytime I go into the control panel or mixer for the Firebox to change things while Live is running, I end up with a crash or lockup in Live, sooner or later. For instance, I wanted to pre-listen to some clips before performing, but the headphone output wasn't recieving a signal from Live, so I opened up the Firebox mixer software to turn off and on the headphone routing. It worked, but 2 minutes later Live locked up and I had to do a hard reboot.
I'm going to email Presonus to ask them if there's a workaround or solution to the buffer size problem.
Overall, I'm pretty happy with the Firebox so far. Its a little quirky, but seems like its the best interface on the market in this price range.
And the headphone output is LOUD!!!

FORMAT · Post by **FORMAT** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 5:29 pm

zion15 wrote:
FORMAT wrote:The situation is such that the Motu doesn't fit in the Maudio laptop rucksack because the rack ears cannot be taken off.
umm... do you still mean traveler by "the Motu"? mine came with rack ears that weren't screwed on by default and can be easily screwed and unscrewed. don't have use for them myself so i just put them in a safe place in case i need them someday. so it's about 14-15 inches wide i think.

fireface is a bit over 17 with rack ears screwed off so it's not a big difference - it MIGHT have actually fit to my backpack but i didn't try it out since in the end it was just too expensive for me to get at the moment.

FORMAT wrote:The Fireface's can, so they might be the few centimetres that I need less, Plus the fireface is slimmer isn't it? In terms of depth.
they're actually both about equal deepness - traveler 9 inches, fireface little over 9. i think it's a good depth actually since i can put my laptop on top of the traveler and use it as a little "table"

if you have the cash to spare and think fireface is portable enough for what you need it, i DO recommend getting it since the sound quality pretty much blows MOTU away and the drivers are rock solid on both platforms. plus RME has an amazing mixing/monitoring system (the totalmix) that's a lot more flexible than MOTU's cuemix.

basically, i'm not a professional nor do i have a dayjob at the moment so i just had to settle for something that was "good enough" and inexpensive enough, instead of awesome. fireface would've been an overkill.

OK I'm now in the position to have to buy an interface--- mine is sold.

So, Motu Traveler has been top-notch reliable? It's really both worlds I'd like to satisfy--- studio and live applications....

R.

amo · Post by **amo** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 5:35 pm

FORMAT wrote: OK I'm now in the position to have to buy an interface--- mine is sold.

So, Motu Traveler has been top-notch reliable? It's really both worlds I'd like to satisfy--- studio and live applications....

R.

Have you thought of RME Multiface ? Didn't read the whole thing for your needs but it has never fail me in any sense, in 2 years of use in different manners...
Just a thought,
Cheers,
amo

FORMAT · Post by **FORMAT** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 6:05 pm

amo wrote:
FORMAT wrote: OK I'm now in the position to have to buy an interface--- mine is sold.

So, Motu Traveler has been top-notch reliable? It's really both worlds I'd like to satisfy--- studio and live applications....

R.
Have you thought of RME Multiface ? Didn't read the whole thing for your needs but it has never fail me in any sense, in 2 years of use in different manners...
Just a thought,
Cheers,
amo

I've though of it and it's the perfect size but the PCMCIA slot is taken by an Airport card... and I don't want to switch things around all the time anymore, as used to be the case with FW devices, because the first Motu has no FW out.

I would like to have dedicated headphone volume adjustment, bus-powered if possible (is the Fireface, btw????), and either compact with less i/o or bigger (must fit in M-Audio laptop rucksack) with more connectivity. The Motu 828 Mk1 doesn't fit in there, but units where the rack ears can be taken off will.
Any more suggestions?
Roland

FORMAT · Post by **FORMAT** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 6:08 pm

ethios4 wrote:dangit! I posted a long description of my experience using the Firebox at a gig, and it didn't post...
Well, basically, if you get the buffer size set properly for Live the Firebox works flawlessly, from my experience last night performing for 2.5 hours.
I was getting all kinds of stutters, pops, and glitches with the Firebox until I realized the problem is that Live likes buffer settings in increments of 128 samples. The Firebox sets its buffer from a dropdown menu of buffer settings in ms, eg. 3ms, 3.5ms, 4ms, 6ms, 8ms, etc..., which gets you buffer settings of (something like) 213, 544, etc.... I found only one combination of sample rate and buffer size that corresponded to an increment of 128 samples. I had to use 96kHz with a buffer size of 4ms, I believe, which allowed 384 sample buffer size. With that setting I experienced no hiccups with the Firebox. Of course, my cpu meter was running around 65% all night from mixing just 2 mp3 clips in Complex mode, and some midi clips running out to another computer. For me thats the first time I've run Live without any audio glitches.
The only other problem I've found so far is that the Firebox really doesn't like it if you change its settings while its in use by Live. Everytime I go into the control panel or mixer for the Firebox to change things while Live is running, I end up with a crash or lockup in Live, sooner or later. For instance, I wanted to pre-listen to some clips before performing, but the headphone output wasn't recieving a signal from Live, so I opened up the Firebox mixer software to turn off and on the headphone routing. It worked, but 2 minutes later Live locked up and I had to do a hard reboot.
I'm going to email Presonus to ask them if there's a workaround or solution to the buffer size problem.
Overall, I'm pretty happy with the Firebox so far. Its a little quirky, but seems like its the best interface on the market in this price range.
And the headphone output is LOUD!!!

Thanks for this review! Is hot-plugging problem-free? have you used any other interfaces to compare them with?

FORMAT · Post by **FORMAT** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 7:34 pm

zion15 wrote:
FORMAT wrote:The situation is such that the Motu doesn't fit in the Maudio laptop rucksack because the rack ears cannot be taken off.
umm... do you still mean traveler by "the Motu"? mine came with rack ears that weren't screwed on by default and can be easily screwed and unscrewed. don't have use for them myself so i just put them in a safe place in case i need them someday. so it's about 14-15 inches wide i think.

fireface is a bit over 17 with rack ears screwed off so it's not a big difference - it MIGHT have actually fit to my backpack but i didn't try it out since in the end it was just too expensive for me to get at the moment.

FORMAT wrote:The Fireface's can, so they might be the few centimetres that I need less, Plus the fireface is slimmer isn't it? In terms of depth.
they're actually both about equal deepness - traveler 9 inches, fireface little over 9. i think it's a good depth actually since i can put my laptop on top of the traveler and use it as a little "table"

if you have the cash to spare and think fireface is portable enough for what you need it, i DO recommend getting it since the sound quality pretty much blows MOTU away and the drivers are rock solid on both platforms. plus RME has an amazing mixing/monitoring system (the totalmix) that's a lot more flexible than MOTU's cuemix.

basically, i'm not a professional nor do i have a dayjob at the moment so i just had to settle for something that was "good enough" and inexpensive enough, instead of awesome. fireface would've been an overkill.

So I'm in the position of having to make a decision pretty soon.... Currently i'm mostly concerned about portability, but that may well change. I just think the Fireface is overkill for me, in terms of features. I am not really recording too much, very rarely. Although I'm producing a demo at the moment, with acoustic instruments and vocals, so for that I reckon the Fireface would be perfect. Would the Firebox be still oK to record acoustic guitar, bass, cajon etc with? Would really love to know, iin terms of converters... Otherwise, as I lug controllers and guitars around too, the smaller the unit the better.

Roland