How do *you* play Live? Working out set-up with VCM 600

[samtastic]

hey gang,

so Im interested in compiling some of my various different pieces of music into a dynamic and morphing live set (using Session view) - the idea is to further develop the pieces improv, not just recreate them on-stage, as I've written them at home. But Im scratching my head as to how exactly I should do this.

Sonically, Ive got an idea of what I want:

I'll be using the Vestax VCM600 as my main mixer, but using the two return faders (on the right) as additional tracks, taking it up to 8 tracks. And using the 12 knobs above these two returns faders as EQ and filters for the last two tracks. For further mapping of parameters, I'll probably use my Korg nanokontrol, and a launchpad for launching clips - I might also look into using my Remote 25SL for additional send control, and automapping to different effects/instruments.

VCM-600:





My own VCM-600 (being used in the studio and live) (from the top down, on each of the six main channels, I am using the dedicated EQ knobs (yellow) as 3-band EQ (with kill), mute button as a 'soft mute' (mutes pre-fader), 'FX IN' (fx insert) button either sends the track down a clean return track, or down a return track with a bunch of effects - essentially inserting the effects on the track, then I have send A (black knob), send B (black know, to the left), HP & LP filter Res (green knob, to the right), and then HP & LP filters on each.

This allows me to control - on each track - basic 3-band DJ-style EQ, filter, whether or not effects are inserted and Send A/B levels.




I want to break up my pieces of music into several different sections - kick, bass, lead, percussion, pad, vox, etc - and have each of these across a channel of the VCM600. But I'd like it to really be a mixture of live sounds being generated on the spot (through effects send/returns and midi input), so it'll be a mix of audio tracks (mainly), with a few midi tracks also.


The part I'm struggling to work out, is how to mix from one piece of music, to another.

One way, would be to break up each song/track into only four sections (kick, bass, body, percussion), and then (with 8 tracks), I could easily mix from one bassline to another, one percussive section to another, etc.

But I feel this doesn't leave that much room for experimenting, and would end up sounding pretty formulaic across a set. Essentially it would become a DJ set, using stem mixes instead of whole tracks, and that's not what I'm aiming to do.


So, I was thinking I could do it this way instead:

Instead of the bass channel controlling a bass track in Ableton, it would control a group track (comprised of two bass tracks). And I could assign each to either side of the crossfader. That way, I could still EQ and filter both, but I would blend/cut from one to the other using the crossfader. I could apply a similar technique to the kick track(s), so that I can control them both with one VCM-600 channel also.

This would leave 6 channels (four full-sized ones, and the two smaller return faders) free for percussion, melody, vox, pads, rhythm parts, etc. Which I would decide on what goes where, depending on which parts were essential to introduce the next piece of music.


Has anyone got any thoughts or suggestions on the topic? How are others doing this?

I know guys like Minilogue use a 24 channel Mackie mixer - which would be amazing - but I don't have the funds (or the fame) for that kind of adventure. I figure the VCM600 process will be a good learning curve, hit & miss, working out what works and what doesn't : )

Does anyone know any good feature articles on how some of the big electronic live acts (Minilogue, Robert Babicz, Extrawelt, Plastikman, for example) do their thing, technically speaking?


Of course the other major consideration is CPU usage versus latency. Again, this will be trial and error to see how far I can push it : )

[samtastic]

no one... ?

[AceLuby]

I transition through pads, bass drum, hi-hats/claps, and sometimes bass lines or lead lines, but not usually.

Seems you have a pretty good idea where you want to go, the trick will be to pick transitions that fit, ie picking the 5th of the current structure to use as the root for the next progression/song, otherwise it will sound conflicting.

Another method is to record a few parts into tracks w/ volume set to zero, then you do a big drop out of the progression/song you are currently working with and then go to the next one instantly. Then you have to worry less about the keys the songs are in.

Another method would be to have an improv style jam that uses pieces of the first song, then builds up the 2nd song while simultaneously tearing down the 1st song.

Sorry if this doesn't help, it was hard to decipher what you want exactly.

[!STiTCH!]

You could create a "mix out" for each track, essentially mixing down an 8-64 bar portion of the song, allowing you to trigger one track to mix out while working to bring in the next song.

[Warwolt]

Now I don't really know your possibilities to expand the set up, but couldn't you try to make some cue-points or similar beat-juggle enabling trick, and then use the cross fader to play the bass lines a bit more freely? That would probably give room for more variations than a track a -> track a/b -> track b formula. You could go all scratchy and do a lot with juggling the bass lines and rhythmically moving the cross fader back and forth.

And not only could this potentially sound a lot more interesting, it would definitely look a lot more awesome on stage.

[nemoy]

I found this set up to be quite functional for me:

An APC 40 to launch clips & mix stuff.
I limit myself to 8 channels, so i dont have to browse around on the apc,
Because this is gonna mess up everything, as soon as i'm in a live situation.

Channel one is Drums. A drumrack filled with single drum samples, triggered by a
dedicated launchpad in usermode 1. enough drums for an entire live set,
accessible at any time, right there to play.

Channel two is another Drumrack, but filled with sliced instrumental samples.
another dedicated launchpad for these.

CHannel 3 is a Fender Rhodes,

Channel 4 Is a little Korg synth
CHannel 5 is the same synth again, so i can Loop a bassline, and
than a chord or so with the same synth on two different channels

Channel 6 is for sampled loops

CHannel 7 is a pair of congas

and channel 8 is a Bass Guitar.

Bassically all the channels are Armed, and so i can record whatever i want on the APC 40 Matrix.
to Loop the clip i'm recording, i just use a Footswitch; APC 40 is kind enough to repeat
whatever clip you triggered last, by using the footswitch 1. (a.k.a. th clip, your recording right now)

You can actually improvise freely with a setup like this.
or you can, like i do, record the first scene entirely from scratch,
and then proceed to a prerecorded scene (a bridge, or a break for example),
using the same instruments, and then go back to the recorded 1st scene again...

I use max. 5 scenes per song, so i can browse with Shift Down directly to the next song
(APC does steps of 5 Scenes, when pushing shift)

So theres an entire 90 minutes or longer set, to freely navigate through,
you can decide wich songs to play at any time, without having to load them.
And by naming the scenes for example "114 BPM" Ableton Plays at 114 BPM, as soon as you
trigger that scene.

And ive got a little nano kontrol, for effects too. and a kaos pad, synced to ableton.
Oh, an lately i added a Piano in simpler,wich is on channel 9, and if i have to loop
that piano, i only need to brows one step right on the apc.. actually managable...

something like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcQV_tG3Si0

i like to add more instruments, that are independant from live, just for soloing,
or spicing things up a bit,

PS: i really like, how your Vestax controller looks!! fantastic! hehe
Cheers!

[gncgry]

the way i deal with this is create a return track and route this into an audio track loaded with looper. then map a button which will mute the playing tracks and send them into this return track, making audio reach the looper.

when i feel fine with the current thing i'm playing i record it into the looper then stop the clips. then i can build the next song and slowly fade out the looper or fx it.

check this: http://www.aurexmusic.com/sampledeck i'm using a modified version of this guy's template in the looper channel. thats pretty awesome.

hope this helps.

[samtastic]

cheers guys.

lots to go on here. will have to put some suggestions into practice and decide what works for me : )

again, thanks : )

[sebprovision]

2014 thread revival. Just bought a VCM 600.

What were your findings samtastic?