How we’ve dealt with stagnant wages

[stringtapper]

Let me put it into a music perspective.

I was playing club gigs in the Boston area back in the early 1980s for $30 a night (5 piece band, $150 total). Thirty years later I play those exact same clubs and still get $30.

BTW according to the IRS my expense for mileage and tolls to play those $30 gigs is $40

Hoping to be dead before the sh** really hits the fan.

I think this has less to do with the overall economic landscape and more to do with the how the club and bar scene devalues performers and music in general. Go to any of the guitar or bass sites and you'll see an argument about this pop up every once in a while. Professional performers can get bent out of shape with other performers who will play for low wages or even for free because they feel that it effectively lowers their own potential wages if bar owners get used to people playing for free or know that they can hire some kids to play for free instead of hiring professionals for a fee.

Some of those people would probably admonish you for continuing to accept low wages for gigs. I think that's part of it but not the whole picture. I think music itself has been devalued with the explosion of recorded media formats. Also bar owners often have an attitude like "Well you're having fun doing this right? Why should I pay you to have fun?" First of all not all gigs are fun and many only worth it if you're getting paid. And secondly you're still providing a service like any other.

[beats me]

Let me put it into a music perspective.

I was playing club gigs in the Boston area back in the early 1980s for $30 a night (5 piece band, $150 total). Thirty years later I play those exact same clubs and still get $30.

BTW according to the IRS my expense for mileage and tolls to play those $30 gigs is $40

Hoping to be dead before the sh** really hits the fan.

I think this has less to do with the overall economic landscape and more to do with the how the club and bar scene devalues performers and music in general. Go to any of the guitar or bass sites and you'll see an argument about this pop up every once in a while. Professional performers can get bent out of shape with other performers who will play for low wages or even for free because they feel that it effectively lowers their own potential wages if bar owners get used to people playing for free or know that they can hire some kids to play for free instead of hiring professionals for a fee.

Some of those people would probably admonish you for continuing to accept low wages for gigs. I think that's part of it but not the whole picture. I think music itself has been devalued with the explosion of recorded media formats. Also bar owners often have an attitude like "Well you're having fun doing this right? Why should I pay you to have fun?" First of all not all gigs are fun and many only worth it if you're getting paid. And secondly you're still providing a service like any other.

Not to mention live bands have been nearly wiped out by DJs, or at least less and less venues wanting to deal with bands. Even just a certain genre can guarantee people in the door and the actual DJ is almost inconsequential.

[Samuel L. Jizzle]

Bands are cumbersome, and unsuited to most venue types, whereas DJs are mostly pretentious, talentless hacks. Neither really being anything of value to an establishment that a premixed iTunea playlist can't. Most people simply don't care, so long as the drinks are cheap and the women are easy.

By what metric do you judge a musician's "value"?

[LoopStationZebra]

Bands are cumbersome, and unsuited to most venue types, whereas DJs are mostly pretentious, talentless hacks. Neither really being anything of value to an establishment that a premixed iTunea playlist can't. Most people simply don't care, so long as the drinks are cheap and the women are easy.

By what metric do you judge a musician's "value"?

By how many chicks he's banging a week, of course. Not to mention his ability to attract chicks that his friends can bang. ffs.

[Samuel L. Jizzle]

That last bit is essential.

[beats me]

Why must this forum always degenerate into a discussion about music!?! Nobody is here for that. Take it elsewhere!

[LoopStationZebra]

[Sage]

Riiiiiiight. You seem to have missed the point of your argument.

That yours is built on simplistic ideas that don't take into account a major variety of issues and how they all impact on each other and only focus on a handful of those to state a very basic case that is heavily flawed as a result?

But in typical American conservative fashion, as it has been for at least the last century, the problems are all caused by problems in the family unit. Truly face palm worthy stuff.

[Samuel L. Jizzle]

That yours is built on simplistic ideas that don't take into account a major variety of issues and how they all impact on each other and only focus on a handful of those to state a very basic case that is heavily flawed as a result?

But in typical American conservative fashion, as it has been for at least the last century, the problems are all caused by problems in the family unit. Truly face palm worthy stuff.

Exactly. Your example doesn't support this.

And by the way, there are plenty on theories on how to best raise children—this is a widely studied field and I personally know many people working in it. To say that we have no idea is just plain ignorant. To say that having an idea is prejudiced is just plain dishonest. But you knew this already.

Meanwhile, I invite you to come post over on my Vagisil thread. You should feel more at home there.

[TomViolenz]

-

[Samuel L. Jizzle]

Word.

[beats me]

The doc also mentioned we are more productive than ever before. A lot of people doing the job of 2 or 3 people previously …and yet we aren’t even getting paid for even just 1 of us (when adjusted for inflation)

[H20nly]

i'm gonna have to agree with the Jizzlesplanation... it might be simple, but i think the one thing worth adding is that this was an event in evolution not some singular decision.

one banker, or 101 bankers didn't sit around rubbing their paws together plotting this whole thing out... they're greedy and don't have the time or consideration to give a shit at that level.

just like one family or 100,000,001 families didn't plan on creating a system that demands their kids be educated for them while they work... they were hungry or scared to be out on the street and didn't have the time or consideration to give a shit at that level.

each side just looked at what was best for them and those closest to them. as is tradition.

[beats me]

one banker, or 101 bankers didn't sit around rubbing their paws together plotting this whole thing out... they're greedy and don't have the time or consideration to give a shit at that level.

This reminds of the one valid response to people’s massive elaborate government conspiracy theories: The people who work in government aren’t that smart.

[H20nly]

well, in this case the problem has been growing for decades... a century even. so based on the logic that most people don't spend too much time giving the next decade or two any real consideration i think it would be a stretch to give them that much goddam credit.