Watched some Push demo videos on youtube, and eh.

[Buleriachk]

I resisted Push for a long time, because while the "InKey" mode has portential, being limited to either the major scale or its related harmonic minor was too much lf a limitation, since it involved switching back and forth between scale selection knob twisting together with key buttons in an illogical way for me.

I finally realized I could switch back and forth instantaneously (and thus get a dominant 7th chord for the related minor) instantly using ClyphX clips in a dedicated track ....

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=202364
viewtopic.php?f=55&t=202209

This really opened up the world of Push to me as a melodic and even chord instrument, since I can get the octaves spread of the open position of the guitar much better than that of a keyboard as well as transpose the whole matrix (using the octave up/down buttons) to any pitch). I'm a guitarist, and the matrix makes it absurdly easy to play guitaristic sequences "InKey", and if I need chromaticism occasionally I can also switch to that using ClyphX.....

And the pads are very sensitive, and also I finally got the colors evened out.....

So Push (as an instrument) has really impressed me after a fairly long time of not having one to experiment with, and so not realizing its worth. I now consider it quite revolutionary and potentially very powerful for performing.... There is a lot more to it than banging beats....

There is a different between rhythmic effects and actual music with melody and harmony (and different rhythmic structures; e.g. triple meter as an alternative to duple meter (google it...

[re:dream]

^ what?

Pencil would be a troll if he wasn't so little

[estibi]

I'm on the same boat.
Ableton promote Push as an instrument, but so far I see it as a tool to create some basic form of song.

What I actually see on YT is how to create a song/beat/whatever from scratch, or how to trigger previously prepared clips.

What I would like to see is at least 30 minutes of playing with Push with making loops, changing drum pattern on the fly, etc. just in the same way if you would have an external analog synth, 808/909 drums and external bassline.

[tedlogan]

I don't blame you. The music in videos online of people using Push to create/play it is horrific. Empty soulless dogshit, badly made glitch/bloopy pish, generic as fuck housebeats with cheesy synths all over it, unlistenable finger drumming aerobics and repetitive nonsense. Well, all that I've seen.

If I was gonna buy a Push based on those, I'd have stayed a mile away. 1 000 000 miles away.

I bought one based on how lovely I thought it would be to use Live with it, and to have a very good drum sequencer/synth instrument/clip launcher/all-round juicy controller all-in-one, with many add-ons if you so choose (ClyphX/PXT/Sonic Faction Mutant Sequencer/community mapping/tom_d's ongoing VST parameter renaming project etc).

If you know what you want, and ignore other people's music, Push is great.

There are loads of videos of people playing junk on a broad range of instruments. It's just the the instruments are in the hands of...I'm gonna go eat something, got bored of my own thoughts.

[slatepipe]

it's not for me either.

i went to see a friend the other week - he's an ableton certified trainer and has one. he passed it me to have a look at and my first thought was 'fucking hell that's heavy'

it's quite big for my liking too. and expensive

i already got a fair few midi controllers anyway - uc33e, quneo, lpk25, fcb1010, joystick/gamepad (wip), awesome midi 1 string bass....

[Valiumdupeuple]

The only good one that I've seen:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_hquuKzMOA

It still is mostly techno shit oriented (well, that's a video from dubspot so no surprise), but sufficiently acceptable to enjoy the fantastic performance (a nicely shoot live performance/improvisation) + that is an excellent demonstration of what is possible with Push and how open it is.

But what if you were to buy Live ? This is almost the same, 99.9% of online video demonstrations (even Ableton's ones) are completely horrible...

[tedlogan]

sorry, double post

[tedlogan]

But what if you were to buy Live ? This is almost the same, 99.9% of online video demonstrations (even Ableton's ones) are completely horrible...

Good point as well, and this:

I also bet that the more accomplished and tricky controllerists (musicians/performers) aren't listing their videos as "Push...anything" , because its become integrated and subservient to their actual music. At least I'd hope so.

It's all just tools and instruments that may or may not suit any one person. They're not gonna bestow talent upon anyone nor enable people to start writing amazing music. Push is not necessary to create great stuff, nor is any hardware. But it's a hell of a lot more enjoyable, and I sure won't ever get rid of my Push.

[panten]

The only good one that I've seen:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_hquuKzMOA

Could you have found possibly the cheesiest video demonstrating Push? That is some real coffee shop background fluff right there.

But what if you were to buy Live ? This is almost the same, 99.9% of online video demonstrations (even Ableton's ones) are completely horrible...

Or an electric guitar? I don't buy my instruments based on marketing hype, nor should anyone. I couldn't care less if Push was being promoted by a red headed virtuoso or not, or that my shoes are also worn by a famous basketball player, I'm not 15 years old ffs.

Ok maybe I would buy completely blind if Chris Vrenna was using one, but that's just the idiot adolescent in me talking.

[tedlogan]

If Trent Reznor and Chris Vrenna used Push back in '94 I'd buy two. I only buy what they use. I'm gonna have to sell my Push now, balls.

Kidding of course.

Yes Panten, I agree.

It's all just bloody instruments and controllers at the end of the day. Use what's gonna work for you. Try out a Push for yourself if you don't have one already, and see if it gets the job you need doing done in a way that you like.

[Valiumdupeuple]

The only good one that I've seen:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_hquuKzMOA

Could you have found possibly the cheesiest video demonstrating Push? That is some real coffee shop background fluff right there.

But what if you were to buy Live ? This is almost the same, 99.9% of online video demonstrations (even Ableton's ones) are completely horrible...

Or an electric guitar? I don't buy my instruments based on marketing hype, nor should anyone. I couldn't care less if Push was being promoted by a red headed virtuoso or not, or that my shoes are also worn by a famous basketball player, I'm not 15 years old ffs.

Ok maybe I would buy completely blind if Chris Vrenna was using one, but that's just the idiot adolescent in me talking.

I've watched the entire performance, and IMHO the guy knows how to play Push as an instrumentist, it's done live and well done I think.
About the quality of the music "It still is mostly techno shit oriented ", or minimal thing or whatnot, I don't know that's not my cup of tea.
I can't listen to some Satriani or Mozart music, but I can't deny the fact that they know how to manage their shit.

"I'm not 15 years old ffs." You're old enough to know how this usually sounds to people, right ?

[eyeknow]

I have to say I'm surprised by this thread.

[beatz01]

I think Push leads ppl to make all the same kind of generic techno muzak.The YT videos just seem to prove my point.

[kb420]

I think Push leads ppl to make all the same kind of generic techno muzak.The YT videos just seem to prove my point.

I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that it's not native to Push to browse your own samples and sounds.

[Michael Hatsis]

I think its got a ways to go before its a mature product. I'm sure at some point it will be cool, but honestly, I don't really care.
I'd rather ableton concentrate on options for users, streamlining, and performance improvements rather than spend all this time and resources on a very rigid, "one workflow fits all" controller.
I tried it for about a week and didn't really think it was worth it, even though i was offered one virtually for free. Most of the stuff it does can be done way quicker on the mouse and keyboard and custom midi mapping, as that was the way Ableton was intended . No slicing, nothing interesting w audio clips ( MLR style stuff ). Poor control of drum racks ( Lives Devices are not set up for 8 knobs ), cant even duplicate a drum pad w it?. The Step seq, I have a better one on the Lemur.


Mike