The Great BitWig Migration

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live

Will you leave Ableton for BitWig?

Nope, I'm staying right here.
216
50%
Yes, I'll be part of the great BitWig migration.
52
12%
Too soon to call, I'll wait and see.
120
28%
I intend to use both
44
10%
 
Total votes: 432

eyeknow
Posts: 5822
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 6:16 am

Re: The Great BitWig Migration

Post by eyeknow » Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:23 pm

Oh noes...........it can't be!

If so, something that always bugged me with the "beta" testers is they never really answered that question (which to me is the most pressing considering)

jestermgee
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Re: The Great BitWig Migration

Post by jestermgee » Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:25 pm

I love how many that have made the effort to test Bitwig are comparing everything to live. From 20 minutes of browsing threads there is nothing but "This is crap. Why do it this way when Live does it that way". And "Seems this issue still exists with Bitwig..."

Pretty much exactly what I thought would happen because the way the rumour mill churned most thought it would be a "new" Live with all the issues fixed and features galore whereas most are very comfortable with Live and don't want things changed just fixed. Being such a close clone of Ableton will mean every single thing will be compared and if Bitwig does it different or not "as good" as Ableton it will be harshly put in the spotlight.

H20nly
Posts: 15836
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Location: The Wild West

Re: The Great BitWig Migration

Post by H20nly » Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:25 pm

ezelkow1 wrote:interesting, looks like it probably has pdc issues:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 9&t=406913


Image

@ the OP. interesting, eh?


suggested thread tittle change: The Great Bitwig Mitigation
Last edited by H20nly on Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ezelkow1
Posts: 366
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2009 6:22 pm

Re: The Great BitWig Migration

Post by ezelkow1 » Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:27 pm

Personally I dont care if it acts like live or not. The only reason I bring up PDC is that it was explicitly mentioned by the devs themselves that it did not have any of the issues of other programs, when looking at that test it does

I also thought some of the beta testers on kvr mentioned in passing that it worked, but showed no concrete evidence, so everyone took them at their word for it. Pretty much puts me back in the camp of 'ill wait for a cheap holiday or second hand sale, if im still interested at that point', not that i was really thinking of switching anyway with so much invested in live but I do loves me some new toys and for me the technology is half the fun anyway
Last edited by ezelkow1 on Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jestermgee
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Re: The Great BitWig Migration

Post by jestermgee » Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:29 pm

eyeknow wrote:Oh noes...........it can't be!

If so, something that always bugged me with the "beta" testers is they never really answered that question (which to me is the most pressing considering)
It's hard to answer anything in regards to what has and has not been addressed in the Betas because of confidentiality agreements. From the fine print I believe if you are discussing anything about Betas your Ableton account and license is converted to Sonar.

regretfullySaid
Posts: 8913
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 5:50 pm

Re: The Great BitWig Migration

Post by regretfullySaid » Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:30 pm

I only had time for about an hour to use it after setting all my preferences and skimming the manual, but yeah it doesn't justify $400.

One of the tracks drifted out of time, undo stopped working. Once you want to start editing in the audio clip it gets a little confusing. It was barely amount of time and I'm not expecting to know it like I know Live, which took a couple years to know it's 'deepest darkest secrets'. I still want to fiddle with it, but not as much as some of the stuff I've already been working on with Live/M4L.
I would've still bought it when I had the spare change, but it's not worth $400 to me atm.
major leap forward in DAW evolution
:roll: /sigh
ImageImage

eyeknow
Posts: 5822
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 6:16 am

Re: The Great BitWig Migration

Post by eyeknow » Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:40 pm

jestermgee wrote:
eyeknow wrote:Oh noes...........it can't be!

If so, something that always bugged me with the "beta" testers is they never really answered that question (which to me is the most pressing considering)
It's hard to answer anything in regards to what has and has not been addressed in the Betas because of confidentiality agreements. From the fine print I believe if you are discussing anything about Betas your Ableton account and license is converted to Sonar.
haha!

But seriously, there were a bunch of "beta" testers over at kvr that were asked about it and what I remember hearing is "I haven't tried that" and "not sure"

.oO There are so many people jumping out of this thing so far I can't keep up. Man, glad I don't tire of popcorn easily! :lol:

eyeknow
Posts: 5822
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 6:16 am

Re: The Great BitWig Migration

Post by eyeknow » Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:41 pm

ezelkow1 wrote:Personally I dont care if it acts like live or not. The only reason I bring up PDC is that it was explicitly mentioned by the devs themselves that it did not have any of the issues of other programs, when looking at that test it does

I also thought some of the beta testers on kvr mentioned in passing that it worked, but showed no concrete evidence, so everyone took them at their word for it. Pretty much puts me back in the camp of 'ill wait for a cheap holiday or second hand sale, if im still interested at that point', not that i was really thinking of switching anyway with so much invested in live but I do loves me some new toys and for me the technology is half the fun anyway
No, I understand. What I'm saying is that THAT was enemy number ONE to ableton. If it doesn't work FLAWLESSLY, either now or in the VERY near future, that is really bad.

dna598
Posts: 827
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Re: The Great BitWig Migration

Post by dna598 » Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:42 pm

Yeah I also have a new appreciation of live. Thanks bitwig. Look forward to meeting you again in a few years. :arrow:
ctrl + left/right = select transient

ctrl + shift + left/right = select between transients

ctrl + space = play selection

ezelkow1
Posts: 366
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2009 6:22 pm

Re: The Great BitWig Migration

Post by ezelkow1 » Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:44 pm

eyeknow wrote:
ezelkow1 wrote:Personally I dont care if it acts like live or not. The only reason I bring up PDC is that it was explicitly mentioned by the devs themselves that it did not have any of the issues of other programs, when looking at that test it does

I also thought some of the beta testers on kvr mentioned in passing that it worked, but showed no concrete evidence, so everyone took them at their word for it. Pretty much puts me back in the camp of 'ill wait for a cheap holiday or second hand sale, if im still interested at that point', not that i was really thinking of switching anyway with so much invested in live but I do loves me some new toys and for me the technology is half the fun anyway
No, I understand. What I'm saying is that THAT was enemy number ONE to ableton. If it doesn't work FLAWLESSLY, either now or in the VERY near future, that is really bad.
That was meant more for the post after yours :)

But yea I agree. On the upside, ableton still has a chance to fix their PDC first and still have it done before bitwig does :) Plus hopefully bitwig still lights a fire under them and gets more things going at abes

regretfullySaid
Posts: 8913
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 5:50 pm

Re: The Great BitWig Migration

Post by regretfullySaid » Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:44 pm

Whoa, I just noticed the Bitwig logo flashes on the launchpad. That's cool... SOLD

not
ImageImage

H20nly
Posts: 15836
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Re: The Great BitWig Migration

Post by H20nly » Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:47 pm

dna598 wrote:Yeah I also have a new appreciation of live. Thanks bitwig.
but but... what about this:
hec wrote:Well folks, it looks like the time is almost here. Despite my grips with Ableton's neglect for some DAW fundamentals I've stuck with it because it truly has been the best, most inspiring DAW to work with.

However, with BitWig that's about to change. Not only did the former Ableton employees take inspiration from Ableton Live, they've left Ableton in the dust in some very crucial areas which are OBJECTIVELY better than what Live has to offer.

1. Multiple audio events per clip / Layered Editing

As all of you know, the Ableton arrange window is not sample accurate. That means editing waveforms requires either an external editor or going into the "detail" view to do the exact same thing you would do in arrange. This is called redundancy. Having to go to 2 places to do one thing is inefficient and thoughtless. There is no intention there and shows how much Ableton neglect audio editing. Gerhard Behles always speaks about simplicity, this workflow however is the exact opposite of simple.

For people who record live music, drums for example this is a nightmare. Say you have to line up some drums, you'll have to cut the waveform in arrange, find the transient in detail view, go back to arrange and do that over and over and over. Neglect.

Bitwig solves that problem in two ways.

The first is multiple audio events per clip. This allows you to edit in the detailed view. Revolutionary? Not at all, it's a logical, obvious feature that feels like it always been there. That's good programming. So now when I want to edit a clip I go to detail view and do all my work in ONE place.

The second is layered editing which extends beyond just audio but also incorporate midi. Less places to go, more information together. That's called simplifying while adding at the same time.

These are just a few of the ways in which BitWig is OBJECTIVELY better than Live. I put that in all caps because that's not an opinion. Ableton doesn't have solutions for those problems. I've had no reason to leave Ableton before, there simply was no competition but BitWig is what Live 9 should have been, and it's that on it's very first release!

Now mind you, it's the little things that counts and BitWig will have it's on dumb neglects but I've stayed in Ableton while overlooking it's weaknesses because it has been overall the best but it looks like it's about to meet it's maker. Will Ableton be the Blackberry and BitWig the iPhone? In my opinion, Ableton has been lazy or not focusing on the basics anymore. That's what happens when you have your own lane but as Music Radar put it, they're no longer in a class by themselves -

"What's really intriguing is that it's the first DAW to really bring the fight to Ableton Live's territory, in exactly the same way as the Cubases, Logics and Sonars of the world have been battling it out for aeons."

It may be too early to tell but right now BitWig is doing everything Ableton does and much better. It some ways it makes Ableton look old. How many of you will be part of the great migration?
this soothsayer spoke the prophecy of the savior to commeth days, nay weeks ago! surely his prophecy is the word of Gawd!?

kb420
Posts: 2739
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2006 3:35 am
Location: Cydonia on the 4th Planet

Re: The Great BitWig Migration

Post by kb420 » Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:51 pm

H20nly wrote:this soothsayer spoke the prophecy of the savior to commeth days, nay weeks ago! surely his prophecy is the word of Gawd!?
Have you heard from him today???

Image
H20nly wrote:fuck Bitwig.

Logan.mccallum
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu May 02, 2013 12:52 am

Re: The Great BitWig Migration

Post by Logan.mccallum » Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:54 pm

He did use lots of capital letters, that has to count for something, to someone, somewhere (I just don't know what, who, or where).

This is one of the most entertaining forum threads I've ever taken the time to read. I actually hope Bitwig is successful, but I don't see myself leaving Live after more than ten years of use.

eyeknow
Posts: 5822
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 6:16 am

Re: The Great BitWig Migration

Post by eyeknow » Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:02 pm

And that is a very nice bow on the xmas package. I really had hoped it was going to be something special that was going to kick it up a notch in the industry. Now, they are going to have even more excuses not to pimp my ride :lol:

Still though, let's give it a week to see how they respond and all. Maybe the PDC thing is fixable, maybe they can implement a few things. Still, with all the hyperbole, seems worse than I thought it would be.

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