LOOK! I just want this featured added in...

Living_Fiction · Post by **Living_Fiction** » Mon Aug 08, 2005 2:56 pm

Tap Tempo, and Auto BPM...Pioneer does it, and it works very well. Usually takes a little bit to let the Auto BPM to fully match correctly, but hell, it works!

loudee · Post by **loudee** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 4:48 pm

whats the point?

i think Live's tempo recognition feature works pretty well, sometimes with major errors, but it still saves a lot of time...

they just have to do a bit more work on auto recognition of beats position and stuff like that.
i always have to do correcting of the first beat marker, and last beat marker (ok this one never mind...), but i also have to correct some recordings from vinyl, because they drift here and there. i think this could be solved in future (like it is on for eg. Native Instruments Traktor programme) and then it will be just perfect.

btw you can tap in tempo in live, but i REALLY dont see the point doing do in purposes of guessing the song tempo.

Living_Fiction · Post by **Living_Fiction** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 10:11 am

Warping isn't good when you just want to do fluid mix whatever sets. I don't want to take my hands off of my controller, and have to go into the computer with a mouse to Warp each song while I'm trying to just mix tracks...Since when can you tap in the tempo for each channel? From what I saw it's only for the main pitch. Pitch Lock would be perfect with it so the beat never goes out sync. Temp Tempo can be totally accurate, as so long as you have some freakin rhythm. Auto BPM is nice, but it still takes too much time to get the BPM's lined up. Unless the program let you Auto BPM data (Typed in, or saved to the track), that is the only it would easly, and quickly match them Automatically. The current so called "State-of-The Art Warping", is just crap (IMHO). Half of the time I can't even match the music using it. So what use is it? Really, nothing...Pioneer is the only company I have seen successfully create an Auto BPM Sync. I just would perfer they make individual Tap Tempo with Pitch Lock for each channel. Untill they get the Auto BPM right.

loudee · Post by **loudee** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 2:39 pm

it dosn't work perfeclty at the moment, but you have to change the way of thinking if you're about to use Live. forget the cdj/turntable medthods. Live works a bit different way and needs you to change your view on subjet a bit.

btw, you can PERFECTLY match beats with Live at the moment, you just have to do a lot of manual adjustments sometimes, and after a while you'll get expirience needed, so you would know exactly where to point those markers, and how to do a wraping job. (producing experience helps a lot, also, general knowledge on waveforms)

if you're not comfortable with this, maybe you should think of staying with the Pioneer technology. for me - i think Live is the next best thing since my first touch with our fine juicy-and-all-spiced-up domestic food (I live on Balcans btw

)

(another thing: you have to spend some time with Live to start understanding it's great creative power)

supster · Post by **supster** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 3:43 pm

autowarping - by itself - needs some work. the "analyze audio" function is not doing much for me but getting the track in the general ballpark

so if i "analyze audio" on a folder, im getting the 1 marker within 2 beats of where it should be, and thats it. the rest of the grid is in that general ballpark, seems like its guessing the tempo fairly well.

but no other markers are set, not even if it needs them

this is on pretty straight up dance tracks, not a lot of tempo variation or drifting. for anything else, forget about it: it sets a whole bunch of warp markers that are just plain wrong

i have to delete them all and do it the old fashioned way

on the other hand, the new context menu features are great: "warp from here" ... warp straight - set 1.1 to here - even "loop to region" .. which seems pretty inconsistant as far as when you can use it, but when its there it comes in handy when you just want to set your loop quick

its details like these that live needs more of .. overall its like its conceptually brilliant, but again sometimes it seems like a 100,000 mercedes with no power windows

the new details make warping a lot faster, but im still doing it the old way with some new time savers. wish the autowarping could work as advertised, warping is still a pain when you're doing tons of tracks ...

.

Living_Fiction · Post by **Living_Fiction** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 5:07 pm

I can see what you are saying, but honestly, Ableton needs to do it more quicker, and straight forward. You can't expect DJ's to get used to watered down/slow tedius tasks if you are making a product for them...You have to remember, Live is sold for DJ use, as well as many other uses. If you think they want their customers going elsewhere for something that will do the job, then you must be crazy. I personally like Live's features, flexability, and overall layout the most. I just think it could be more intuitive. Also, many other hardware synthesizers, samplers, etc all have Tap Tempo...I don't see why this program shouldn't at least ADD it in there. I never said you couldn't give Warping as option for producers, or people who don't need to do things on the fly. If you really don't like my suggestion, then ignore it. I'm simply making suggestions for Ableton staff only.

montrealbreaks · Post by **montrealbreaks** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 7:48 pm

Why don't they do it that way?

Easy - because most people warp their tracks BEFORE their shows - giving them infinitely more precise control once the set starts.

That's why. What Living Fiction is suggesting is a downgrade I would think.

I mean, how can ANY automated system find transients and identify them as accuratley as a human with ears and eyes?

Living_Fiction · Post by **Living_Fiction** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 3:46 am

montrealbreaks wrote:Why don't they do it that way?

Easy - because most people warp their tracks BEFORE their shows - giving them infinitely more precise control once the set starts.

That's why. What Living Fiction is suggesting is a downgrade I would think.

I mean, how can ANY automated system find transients and identify them as accuratley as a human with ears and eyes?

That's the thing...Humans aren't as percise as machines, but from what I have seen, and used this program doesn't work for Auto BPM worth a damn...I'm refering to DJing. Most DJ's would like to be able to mix whatever they are feeling, instead of having to make entire mix sets ahead of time...It's nice to be able to make my own custom set, but what if I wanted to do just track-to-track mixing? Exactly, I can't. I would have to go to Traktor or something...People I'm simply making a suggestion for DJing, not to remove the feature all together...You should really read every post I made before you shoot your mouth off.

montrealbreaks · Post by **montrealbreaks** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 4:02 am

Living_Fiction wrote:
montrealbreaks wrote:Why don't they do it that way?

Easy - because most people warp their tracks BEFORE their shows - giving them infinitely more precise control once the set starts.

That's why. What Living Fiction is suggesting is a downgrade I would think.

I mean, how can ANY automated system find transients and identify them as accuratley as a human with ears and eyes?
That's the thing...Humans aren't as percise as machines, but from what I have seen, and used this program doesn't work for Auto BPM worth a damn...I'm refering to DJing. Most DJ's would like to be able to mix whatever they are feeling, instead of having to make entire mix sets ahead of time...It's nice to be able to make my own custom set, but what if I wanted to do just track-to-track mixing? Exactly, I can't. I would have to go to Traktor or something...People I'm simply making a suggestion for DJing, not to remove the feature all together...You should really read every post I made before you shoot your mouth off.

I think you mistook my post by 180 degrees - and I read your post, so don't get snotty with me amigo.

First, I was saying that Humans are way more precise than machines - that means you agreed with me. Of course a computer is going to suck at finding transients. That's just life. You completely took me to be saying to the opposite of what I actually said.

Second, just because you warp your tracks doesn't mean that you pre-program your entire set. Think of it like a DJ who marks his records. Just writing cue points on the labels and bpms doesn't mean that you have to "mix your entire set ahead of time".

Living_Fiction wrote: Also, many other hardware synthesizers, samplers, etc all have Tap Tempo...I don't see why this program shouldn't at least ADD it in there.

AND FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH LIVE HAS A TAP TEMPO FEATURE. RTFM.

BTW, I've been composing music with electronics for 18 years, and I probably quit DJing before you ever started, so I think the following quote is in order here (maybe you'll learn something son)...

Living_Fiction wrote: You should really read every post I made before you shoot your mouth off.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

Living_Fiction · Post by **Living_Fiction** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 4:22 am

Okay, for one...How do you beat match without using Warping??? Secondly, you seemed like you were making a sarcastic joke about humans being more percise...A.I. could easly beat out a human...It has been proven through history. Lastly, I never saw any Tap Tempo, and Pitch Lock for each channel...I only saw a Master Tap Tempo. Even if it did have Tap Tempo, what about the pitch changing? You would still have to go through, and adjust that with the Warping...Too much time.

ben_blue · Post by **ben_blue** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 9:21 pm

you just gotta warp everything you would ever want to play, ever, and as you get new music, do that new music.

once youve warped a file you never have to do it again.
i can warp pretty quick, and sometimes Traktor doesnt find the beat and you have to define a beat grid

working like this, having warped everything u got ( all my dance tracks have TWO warped markers. thats it...dont gotta do every bar) you wont need channel tap tempos - everything will be 100% synced perfect...

hope this help, and sorry if any was redundant.
b

hambone1 · Post by **hambone1** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 9:43 pm

Living Fiction

If you did a little more research before your criticisms, you wouldn't look so ignorant to what Live is and how it works.

And if Pioneer does it for you, what are you doing here? If something works, why not stick with it?

supster · Post by **supster** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 9:54 pm

Living_Fiction wrote:How do you beat match without using Warping???

most of the power of the program comes from locking your tracks in with markers ahead of time, then editing, re-arranging and pitchmatching on the fly.

as well as plenty of other things that would be impossible otherwise.

otherwise it would be tracktor. if thats what you want, you can buy it.
.

Living_Fiction · Post by **Living_Fiction** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 10:09 pm

hambone1 wrote:Living Fiction

If you did a little more research before your criticisms, you wouldn't look so ignorant to what Live is and how it works.

And if Pioneer does it for you, what are you doing here? If something works, why not stick with it?

Limits, too much gear to lug around, and CD's can be a hassle.

hambone1 · Post by **hambone1** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 10:18 pm

You almost have to forget the way you worked before. It will slow down your learning of Live.

In my opinion, you're better off learning the new way of using Live to DJ, rather than trying to force it to do things the way you're used to.

FWIW...