The Great BitWig Migration

[TTOZ]

It will be very interesting to see when FL is finally released as a mac native program later this year, whether it will allow vst and au plugins as a rewire slave.

[deva]

think about this...
Bitwig V1.0 is much more comprehensive than Live V1.0 was when it was out...

I guess if they'll last to V4.. the'll be a force to be reckoned with

That's my take too. Although if they continue to just be a self enclosed DAW without basic elements like Rewire, external sync ala beat clock etc., then they're unintentionally shooting themselves in the foot. I think Live established itself so well at first because the clip launching and time stretching built in were so different that people who had a DAW like Logic, Cubase, DP etc. didn't feel it was redundant to by Live in the same way that Reason didn't. That was for sure true for me, I was entrenched in Logic 7 when I bought Live 3, and saw that the features didn't overlap so much.

The fact it did rewire was a selling point, although I ended up not using it much because of it's slave mode behavior. I do think it's a mistake for them not to do rewire out the door. I've just been giving reasons why they may not want to. It seems to me that there is a ideological split that created Bitwig, in house as much as possible VS collaboration.

Bitwig has an open controller API. Users are creating, modifying and sharing controller scripts. Bitwig worked with the Nektar folks to have Bitwig Studio integrate with their controllers. It is not my impression that they are averse to collaboration.

My speculation is that they have a long list of things they want to do. When 1.0 initially shipped, it did not have Midi export. Now it does (basic but there). My impression is that they are somewhat firm about not using rewire (for whatever reasons). Besides that one thing, the rest of the examples one might give are, I think, more an indication of how much they still have to do rather than a mindset. They do seem to be open source friendly.

Anyway, I'm just guessing too, so you could be right... but then I think it likely that users will push them anyway.

So yeah, if they can last to v3...

[Machinesworking]

Bitwig has an open controller API. Users are creating, modifying and sharing controller scripts. Bitwig worked with the Nektar folks to have Bitwig Studio integrate with their controllers. It is not my impression that they are averse to collaboration.

Mostly though what I meant was no outside code in Bitwig beyond VST plug ins. Sure they will expand their Javascript and work with people to implement it etc. but I doubt they're going to be licensing 3rd embedded party plug ins or allowing low level embedding like Max 4 Live. Just a guess, but they split from Ableton around the time of the alpha phase testing with M4L.

The open controller thing, that's one area where they're already following in some of Ableton's worst footsteps. I shouldn't have to know Javascript to get my Remote SL to work properly with Bitwig, that's ridiculous, that sort of thing should be reserved for those that want to set it up themselves. All the most common controllers should have been in there to begin with. Huge turn off for me.

[Machinesworking]

Please. Saying rewire is old and outdated and not important is like saying midi is old outdated and not important.

True, but honestly MIDI is old and outdated. There are better solutions, but we have an existing ecosystem.

Rewire wise, if Bitwig Studio offered full plug in and MIDI capabilities to both DAWs in question, then I would say it's not old and outdated. The issue has to be somewhat deeper for most hosts on PC and all hosts on Mac not to allow this, and there's no impetus on Propellerheads to add new functionality so if dual hosting is an issue for some DAWs it will always be an issue. It's my only conjecture as to why Bitwig would out the door not support rewire???

[cstump]

Please. Saying rewire is old and outdated and not important is like saying midi is old outdated and not important.

True, but honestly MIDI is old and outdated. There are better solutions, but we have an existing ecosystem.

Rewire wise, if Bitwig Studio offered full plug in and MIDI capabilities to both DAWs in question, then I would say it's not old and outdated. The issue has to be somewhat deeper for most hosts on PC and all hosts on Mac not to allow this, and there's no impetus on Propellerheads to add new functionality so if dual hosting is an issue for some DAWs it will always be an issue. It's my only conjecture as to why Bitwig would out the door not support rewire???

Their explanation is on the record at KVR in the host forum in the 400 some odd page ongoing Bitwig Speculation and Cat pic thread. They claim just as has been mentioned here that Rewire IS OLD and Outdated and a thing of the soon to be past.

Once again their outright arrogance in this matter eludes more than just me logically in the case of Windows, your quite right as to cross support though but as has been suggested before they might have been better to first release the Linux version and allowed the beta to keep going on the other 2 OS's until it got baked a little more and Jack could become a better working solution for Windows which it isn't at the moment.

It's really a turn off for us Hold Outs, Dinosaurs if you will... I guess we will die off eventually.

[eyeknow]

(shrug) Well, only bitwig has the vision of linux and the gold standard it brings to the audio world (I know people are just waiting in line for that)

[cstump]

(shrug) Well, only bitwig has the vision of linux and the gold standard it brings to the audio world (I know people are just waiting in line for that)

Anybody who has ever worked in Linux knows it's an ongoing experiment just running that OS. The Kernel is an evolving cyclops of unending freely modified code. I have tried to like it on 2 or 3 occasions and left it in frustration with the knowledge that although Windows is Proprietary Software it works(without fiddling with the source code or mounting drives) and has a gajillion programs to choose from.

In my case you could call that laziness but in some others who constantly call for Linux support it's put out there like a golden standard.

p.s. I note the sarcasm by the way.

[Machinesworking]

^^^ There are a ton of posts on the Bitwig sub forum at KVR from Linux fans about how much they love the Linux version. So yeah, they made a good choice with that I think. Regardless of how annoying Linux is to most of us.

[eyeknow]

Oh, that explains this:

"give us a linux version!!!!!!"

[deva]

Anybody who has ever worked in Linux knows it's an ongoing experiment just running that OS. The Kernel is an evolving cyclops of unending freely modified code.

My Linux server has been running 24/7 for so long I can't remember the last time it was turned off...

[eyeknow]

I'm all for my dads illegitimate bastard son. But nobody said he was popular at parties

[Machinesworking]

I'm all for my dads illegitimate bastard son. But nobody said he was popular at parties

Negative Nancy!

[H20nly]

I said it before:

i'm sure the Linux community is up in arms about this software that you... pay... for.

i'm sure they're all bashing in their alias and their credit numbers so they can can cd, mkdir, and apt-get Bitwig and then killall the music scene the world over so they can finally take a well earned night off of coding.

[Machinesworking]

I said it before:

i'm sure the Linux community is up in arms about this software that you... pay... for.

i'm sure they're all bashing in their alias and their credit numbers so they can can cd, mkdir, and apt-get Bitwig and then killall the music scene the world over so they can finally take a well earned night off of coding.

like coders aren't making music? Max 4 Live, and the Python script to make your controller work with Live, the guys popping in with little .als files with code to make Push into a video game etc.

Here:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/search.ph ... 5B0%5D=259

So yeah I think they made the right choice there; it's definitely a "Build it and they will come" situation.

What I'm curious about is how the Linux version will fare as far as CPU? The major advantage of open source is the possibility of the lack of bloatware.

[eyeknow]

I'm all for my dads illegitimate bastard son. But nobody said he was popular at parties

Negative Nancy!

How did you know I dressed in drag tonight?