Ableton Live with Allen & Heath Mixers

rengel · Post by **rengel** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 3:21 am

Guys,

I'm looking (still) at getting a decent Mixer / MIDI Controller for use with Ableton Live 4/5.
I'm using it mainly as a DJ application.

I've looked into the Xone 92 Allen & Heath mixer, which now has MIDI, so it supports Ableton Live. Does anyone have this setup currently, and does it work better than having a MIDI Controller such as the Evolution products (uc33e, xsession17, etc)??

The Xone 92 looks pretty pricey, so it would definately have to suit the application hands down if I were to invest in it!
I've also read the reviews on the Xone 3D (which hasn't been released), but it's all smoke and mirrors at the moment, and after waiting 6 months, I still can't seem to find a decent MIDI Controller/Mixer for Ableton Live, which has both functionality (triggering clips, looping, etc) as well as a 'decent built' mixer, and that FEELS like a decent mixer.

Can someone tell me IF they are using Allen & Heath equipment, what exactly they have setup, and connected? Photos wouid be muchly appreciated too.

Thanks All.

R.

smartabletonuser · Post by **smartabletonuser** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 3:55 am

Have you looked into the faderfoxes? www.faderfox.de

Got mine not so long ago and it is by far one of the most flexible mixing surfaces out there.

The only real problem I've been having with them is the fault of Live where you can highlight a clip remotely, but you cannot select it to edit it, loop it etc. Well, maybe soon.

rengel · Post by **rengel** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 4:08 am

I've checked faderfox.de, but they all seem really 'small' and 'battery' powered?

I want to be taking this mixer into clubs and use it commercially, definately not looking for a bedroom setup

I'm also looking at something with a bit more functionality, best quality knobs, faders, buttons,etc. Answers are pointing toward Allen & Heath, unless there is something else?

R.

smartabletonuser · Post by **smartabletonuser** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 4:27 am

don't underestimate "the fox"

It is highly versatile as a live mixer with all high quality components. Myself and many others use it professionally for live shows. I mean, if you want to drop 1.5 G on an Xone, go ahead. But for what you get, the fox is far superior to many more popular controllers out there.

All you need for the clubs then is a decent sound card.

good luck!

rengel · Post by **rengel** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 4:39 am

Looks "OK", but still prefer the look (and feel) of A&H....
Do you have pics of your setup with faderfox & live? post them up..
would love to see them..

Anyone else using faderfox or A&H ?

supster · Post by **supster** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 5:09 am

two problems:

1 - its not always going to be practical to bring a big mixer like the Xone into a club.

2 - imo there are not still enough controls on it or any of the other ones coming out like it, to make full use out of Live

better to rig something up with the UC or behringer and triggerfinger in the meantime and wait for some real products to be released

xeb · Post by **xeb** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 8:43 am

^ exactly what he said

i don't mean this to be offensive but do you play out in clubs now? i do regurarly (dj not live set) in london and across eastern europe. the idea of taking any mixer along with me, let alone a xone 92 (pretty fuckin big!) is simply out of the question and something i'd never consider. first off you gotta get it from A to B... maybe this isn't such a problem for you in oz particularly if you can drive to all your gigs, but you're then restricting yourself to local gigs only. then you get it to the club.... you gotta A) find space in a probably very cramped booth to fit your mixer, B) get the old mixer disconnected and yours connected.... what happens if someone else is on before you or after you... are you gonna turn up at the start of the night and stay till the end (and let thm play on your lovely xone)??, and not forgetting C) the fact that in a professional club the sound technician may have the mixer limited and may not let you replace the club one!

the xone is primarily a audio mixer, with a few midi features added in. great if you want to chuck a few loops over a traditional (vinyl/cd) dj set, but if you want to mix in live its pointless unless you send each channel from live to a seperate channel on the xone and use the xone's faders/eqs/filters to mix.... but you're not controlling live with midi that way at all. the xone's midi capabilities.... sweet fuck all on there compared to any midi controller you're gonna buy....

qmanvox · Post by **qmanvox** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 9:23 am

Hi R

I use a Xone 92 with Live 5 & Firewire 410 BUT also have CDJ1000's & turntable connected to play a set & bring in samples/songs synced by midi to the Xone92 from live 5. I dont play in clubs but rather small bars where you setup yourself on a small stage/table etc

I didnt buy Xone 92 to be a specific controller for Live as it doesnt have the amount of midi knobs to suffice an application like Live but it does compliment a Dj setup well for Live i.e returns for effects and also LFO's

I bought the Xone 92 mainly for making good compilations in my recording studio as it has such a warm feel to the sound..The LFO's are awesome if you get it right in a mix

As I have played sets in many clubs I agree with the guys who have advised you to look for a more conventional controller type like faderFox. In fact i have looked at them myself and seen people use them with Live and they rock.

Dont get me wrong, money well spent on Xone 92 and wouldnt change it for the world but it was not really designed for live. Ritchie Hawtin got Allen & Heath to design a specific controller for Live (1 off) and the Xone 92 is a spin off from that with small midi capabilities

hope that helps a bit..might dig out the digital camera and post a pic sometime this week of the setup

qman

rengel · Post by **rengel** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 9:34 am

Guys,

Appreciate ALL your responses to this post.
Looks like Xone 92 is the way to go IF I'm using CDJ1000's or in a traditional club environment (not taking my own!).
If I want to use Ableton Live, purely, I will need something like the Xone 3D, or similar.

Personally I dont like the look of the Evolution stuff or M-Audio stuff (Except the sound cards), so looks like I'm going to wait until someone releases a half decent Midi controller which feels like a real mixer!

DJRetard · Post by **DJRetard** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 11:21 am

The A+H mixers sound path is excellent. They blow away the pioneer mixers that you see in every club. The fliters are excellent and you can get very creative with the eq. Add that to the midi functionality and you have a super dooper system. if you come to sell the mixer it will also hold its price.
You wont regret the decision and you will have enough knobs and buttons to do your fancy stuff. Dont worry about that.

xeb · Post by **xeb** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 11:50 am

rengel wrote:Personally I dont like the look of the Evolution stuff or M-Audio stuff (Except the sound cards), so looks like I'm going to wait until someone releases a half decent Midi controller which feels like a real mixer!

have you looked at behringer bcr2000 or bcf2000?

subterFUSE · Post by **subterFUSE** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 12:04 pm

Personally I dont like the look of the Evolution stuff or M-Audio stuff (Except the sound cards), so looks like I'm going to wait until someone releases a half decent Midi controller which feels like a real mixer!

You are 100% correct. There are no decent DJ mixer style MIDI controllers on the market currently. Your choices are basically the Evolution UC-33e, X-Session, Behrenger BCF/BCR, or FaderFox.

I'm using the UC-33e right now, and it gets the job done.... but I wish I had more buttons to assign headphone cue select, and clip triggers.

For a home setup, I like the look of the Mackie Control Universal, but that's just too big and expensive for mobile gigs.

Someone else made an important point:

I played out last friday night in a small bar. I brought my new Laptop computer, M-Audio Firewire Audiophile soundcard, and Evolution UC-33e. All gear fit neatly inside my laptop bag. When I arrived at the gig, I had to setup and found that they had a small DJ booth with 2 turntables and 2 CDJ-100 players. There was absolutely no free desk space for my laptop or MIDI controller. So, I put the plastic dust cover on the turntables, and placed my laptop on the cover. I placed my Evolution on the keyboard of my laptop. In the end, it worked out this way.... but if I had a large MIDI controller I would have had to disconnect their shit and caused a lot more trouble.

So, don't underestimate the importance of Ableton gear portability. Sure, extra functionality is great.... but sometimes you have to make some sacrifices.

robin · Post by **robin** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 12:23 pm

subterFUSE wrote: So, don't underestimate the importance of Ableton gear portability. Sure, extra functionality is great.... but sometimes you have to make some sacrifices.

this is why i don't think midi-fied mixers like the xone92 are all that useful. if you play in dj booths a lot it's unlikely that this will be the mixer in the club installation. and space for extra gear is usually at a premium.

for djing with 3 or 4 tracks the uc17 i have is adequate if you're careful with what you map (and use the computer keyboard too). i have a uc33 but i haven't used that much yet.

i'm waiting on the deluge of controllers that must be waiting in the wings by now....the glaring gap in the market will surely be filled at some point.

subterFUSE · Post by **subterFUSE** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 2:15 pm

i'm waiting on the deluge of controllers that must be waiting in the wings by now....the glaring gap in the market will surely be filled at some point.

I agree. The problem is that computer DJing is only starting to take on a noticable level of popularity.... so companies are finally seeing an opportunity to make $$ developing controllers for us.

Soon, there will be many more options out there. I just hope it's really soon, because I'm getting bored with my UC-33e.

drush · Post by **drush** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 4:56 pm

this was probably said somewhere in this thread, but the xone92 really doesn't have much midi control. if you are looking to control ableton, that's not it... it's not a ctrl92 nor are you able to get one.