Approaching people because of the song they’re blasting

[derzai]

But I'll say this again, too - while borders might be hard or even impossible to pinpoint with mathematical precision, what is clearly beyond the border is not.

nah, if it is clear what is beyond the border, then you got the border as well, that is what i think.

and for me only pedosexuality is beyond the border, regarding intervening in bedroom life of people.

about being mysogenistic, that is very arbitrary, i, for exmaple, once had a girl that liked to swallow my load. she really liked it.

well 9 out of 10 girls would find that mysogenistic.

about what is tolerated here to discuss on the forum, i fully agree with you when you say this is not a macho locker room for making derogatory remarks about woman.

that's just wrong and boring.

okay, i'm out for a ride on the bike.

[TomViolenz]

I will say this though. They are a bit hypersensitive about females from over the top misogyny to less offensive stereotyping.

Well beats me, I will say this - sexism is a bit of a sensitive topic, wouldn't you agree? Anywhere in general, but certainly so on a tech-related forum, which as we all know are sadly notoriously known to be boys' clubs. We'd certainly like to see that change, and stereotyping language does not help.

In my opinion this whole thread here (including some of my posts) where skirting close to somewhat sexist over generalization. So I think your moderation was absolutely lenient enough by taking into account that we are only guys here, but not letting us get carried away in disgusting stupidity. Only deleting the offending post and sending a stern warning to the poster in question is the right way to go IMO.

Regarding the ban on political and religious topics, Tom (sorry, I was meaning to respond earlier), let me just say - yes, it's users who start flamewars, not topics. Yet for some reason it's almost invariably politics- and religion-related topics where flamewars get started.

On the flipside of the coin, we aren't exactly scanning the forum for politics and religion day and night deleting threads left and right - we are trying to be as lenient as possible. The most important rule of all is still being nice and respectful to each other, and not offensive. Yes, we do reserve the right to lock or delete an imploding thread at moderator discretion, and the politics & religion ban will be the foundation for that, but if a thread manages to stick to that most important rule, it probably won't get trashed just because a politician's name pops up somewhere in there. On the other hand, it is certainly a bit unclear what a communism vs. capitalism thread might be doing on a music software and production forum.

Another question often asked is "where do politics and religion begin" / "where is the border line". And as I already mentioned in a different context, that's certainly difficult to define. If we started to discuss this question, we could be here forever. But I'll say this again, too - while borders might be hard or even impossible to pinpoint with mathematical precision, what is clearly beyond the border is not.

So in conclusion, the ban remains in place - but I personally often feel like it's made to look like a bigger deal than it is, really. You really don't have to weigh every word you write here, let me assure you that's not the situation at all. If you read the rule carefully, it doesn't say everything will immediately be deleted or locked - it says it will at moderation discretion. In other words, it's up to us. And I hope you trust us to not be some sort of draconic Big Brother here.

And here I think the approach is not as good IMO. Why delete the whole thread, in which good discussions took place, just because one or two posters got carried away?!
The delete-specific-posts-and-warn-poster approach would have been much better I think.
The big brother feeling doesn't come from the moderation, but from the fact that the thread got deleted and the other non-offending discussions were not allowed to be carried on either.
This leads to the feeling that these discussions are good to go, until they are not and then it's game over for everyone, even the people who stuck to the rules.

Edit: BTW, I was talking about the last religion thread that got deleted a little while ago, in case that wasn't clear.

[TomViolenz]

about being mysogenistic, that is very arbitrary, i, for exmaple, once had a girl that liked to swallow my load. she really liked it.

And would she also feel comfortable about you telling this to all the guys on the internet?!
And btw, you telling us about it is reducing her to this activity and objectifies her.
So in my opinion, statements like yours are exactly the kind of statements that should be deleted and should lead to a ban for repeat offenses.

BTW: after reading this statement I don't think worse of her, but I certainly do of YOU!

[re:dream]

Why should he not share it? It's not like he's mentioning names...

[[stm]]

And here I think the approach is not as good IMO. Why delete the whole thread, in which good discussions took place, just because one or two posters got carried away?!
The delete-specific-posts-and-warn-poster approach would have been much better I think.
The big brother feeling doesn't come from the moderation, but from the fact that the thread got deleted and the other non-offending discussions were not allowed to be carried on either.
This leads to the feeling that these discussions are good to go, until they are not and then it's game over for everyone, even the people who stuck to the rules.

Edit: BTW, I was talking about the last religion thread that got deleted a little while ago, in case that wasn't clear.

It's a fair point and we'd like to take it into consideration, however, there's also the real-world limitation of our moderation capacities to consider. It's simply beyond the scope of these capacities to watch every potentially "dangerous" thread and take care of a flamewar individually, at least it is to always do so. We tried doing that for a while and that proved to be very time-consuming and not very effective.

I can only repeat what I wrote a while ago - at the end of the day, The Lounge is something of an experiment. It's an off-topic forum which we simply can't afford to dedicate all of our moderation capacities to. Therefore, it's at least in part up to the Lounge community as a whole to make sure discussions stay at a civilized level.

Edit: BTW, I'm writing this on my free time.

[TomViolenz]

Why should he not share it? It's not like he's mentioning names...

Seriously?!

Only if he also shares with us that he didn't need to worry about scraping teeth, because he is so tiny...

In any case, if you guys secretly long for this kind of locker room atmosphere, count me out.
If I wanted that I would join a soccer fanclub or a gym.

Discussions about socialism and capitalism don't have a place here, but some about your sexual preferences and lifestyles do?! FFS

In German we have a saying:

"Ein Gentleman geniesst und schweigt" (A gentleman enjoys and stays mum)

I enjoy discussions with gentleman (even of different political leanings). Discussions with pathetic teenage boys or their intellectual grown-up counterparts bragging about their sexual encounters (real or imagined) not so much...

[TomViolenz]

Apreciated

Edit: BTW, I'm writing this on my free time.

You are probably the only one here doing so then

[re:dream]

Why should he not share it? It's not like he's mentioning names...

Seriously?!

Only if he also shares with us that he didn't need to worry about scraping teeth, because he is so tiny...

In any case, if you guys secretly long for this kind of locker room atmosphere, count me out.
If I wanted that I would join a soccer fanclub or a gym.

Discussions about socialism and capitalism don't have a place here, but some about your sexual preferences and lifestyles do?! FFS

In German we have a saying:

"Ein Gentleman geniesst und schweigt" (A gentleman enjoys and stays mum)

I enjoy discussions with gentleman (even of different political leanings). Discussions with pathetic teenage boys or their intellectual grown-up counterparts bragging about their sexual encounters (real or imagined) not so much...

Hmm, I don't think derzai was bragging or creating a locker room atmosphere. He was just using this as an example to show that what one person might experience as oppressive to women might not be seen in the same way as another. Which is a fair point, and his example was a good example - in fact your hectic response illustrates that.

[TomViolenz]

Why should he not share it? It's not like he's mentioning names...

Seriously?!

Only if he also shares with us that he didn't need to worry about scraping teeth, because he is so tiny...

In any case, if you guys secretly long for this kind of locker room atmosphere, count me out.
If I wanted that I would join a soccer fanclub or a gym.

Discussions about socialism and capitalism don't have a place here, but some about your sexual preferences and lifestyles do?! FFS

In German we have a saying:

"Ein Gentleman geniesst und schweigt" (A gentleman enjoys and stays mum)

I enjoy discussions with gentleman (even of different political leanings). Discussions with pathetic teenage boys or their intellectual grown-up counterparts bragging about their sexual encounters (real or imagined) not so much...

Hmm, I don't think derzai was bragging or creating a locker room atmosphere. He was just using this as an example to show that what one person might experience as oppressive to women might not be seen in the same way as another. Which is a fair point, and his example was a good example - in fact your hectic response illustrates that.

Ok, which issue then did you have with Goddards post actually?! Would the same post have been ok, if he would have written: I like my women to....,
instead of; I like women to...?!

After all in the first case he would just tell us his preference...nothing wrong with that right?

And that you think that derzai was neither bragging nor creating a locker room atmoshere, just shows how desensitized you already are. I suggest you ask your girl to come into the Lounge and discuss with us how dezai liked his girl to swallow his load...
If you suddenly don't feel like this would be such a good idea, consider this a teaching moment

[regretfullySaid]

And btw, you telling us about it is reducing her to this activity and objectifies her.

How? If he said she was a he it would've made all the difference? Would that have objectified men?

There's a pretty different distinction between him talking about a specific person enjoying a specific thing opposed someone speaking generally about the opposite sex.

You mentioned that you'd have to act differently if women were around, well that seems to be closer to 'objectification' than what re:dream said. I get that you mean it to be gentlemanly, but you're talking about behaving differently based on a different sex being around, not a person.

Also just in case I'm not able to make timely statement to this thread, I'm just gonna put this here and the level-headed may apply where applicable.

[TomViolenz]

And btw, you telling us about it is reducing her to this activity and objectifies her.

How? If he said she was a he it would've made all the difference? Would that have objectified men?

Not men in general, but this specific man? Yes it would have.
In my opinion there is only one situation where this sort of statement is ok and that is if she specificaly allowed him to share this private information with people on the internet. (And I highly doubt that the little dweeb would even dare to ask for this permission from her)
Otherwise it's a grave breach of trust.
But this is besides the sexist angle.
What I feel is sexist about it, is that he feels he needs to mention this sexual activity in a thread that is discussing misogyny. How in the world is talking about sexual activity with women as the first and only argument in any way respectful to women?! (Or to men if the situation would be reversed). This is exactly reducing them to sexual objects not persons. I think about 90% of women would not feel comfortable talking about respect between women and men, when the men talk about them this way. And we shouldn't either!

[re:dream]

. I suggest you ask your girl to come into the Lounge and discuss with us how dezai liked his girl to swallow his load...
If you suddenly don't feel like this would be such a good idea, consider this a teaching moment

I do have to say I have no problems on that score. Why would that make a difference?

I am totally comfortable with the discussions I participate in and have no worries about what other might think of my participation.

(And my judgements about the appropriateness of what people post here has nothing to do with whether or not women are present. Misogynist comments are unacceptable to me whether or not there are women present. The expression of racial hatred is repugnant to me regardless of whether there are racial 'others' present. )

[re:dream]

i fully agree with you when you say this is not a macho locker room for making derogatory remarks about woman.

that's just wrong and boring.

And that you think that derzai was neither bragging nor creating a locker room atmoshere, just shows how desensitized you already are.

[regretfullySaid]

n/m

[TomViolenz]

. I suggest you ask your girl to come into the Lounge and discuss with us how dezai liked his girl to swallow his load...
If you suddenly don't feel like this would be such a good idea, consider this a teaching moment

I do have to say I have no problems on that score. Why would that make a difference?

I am totally comfortable with the discussions I participate in and have no worries about what other might think of my participation.

(And my judgements about the appropriateness of what people post here has nothing to do with whether or not women are present. Misogynist comments are unacceptable to me whether or not there are women present. The expression of racial hatred is repugnant to me regardless of whether there are racial 'others' present. )

No, this was meant to make you think about how she would feel about such a discussion, and if she would really not be bothered by discussing mysogynie under these circumstances. Great job missing my point though...